DC-3 Flagship Tulsa Restoration

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 3:15 pm

The CAF has both a C-53 (Wright) and C-47 (Pratt) aircraft and I've not heard anything to say that the Wrights are really significantly different than the Pratts.

Personally, I would go historically accurate. If it came off the line with Wrights, put Wrights on it. The current Flagship flying has Wrights and seems to be doing fine and looks great as well, so I'd follow their lead.

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 3:56 pm

CAPFlyer-

Are you sure the Flagship Detroit flies with Wrights? Are these Wrights? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just not sure.)

I thought these were Wrights, with the smooth cowlings (and something that looks a little different when looking at the cowling from a head-on perspective).

I agree with you about being historically accurate. But I also am aware that we're going to have to be a little pragmatic about it as well. Just looking for advice.

kevin

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 4:40 pm

I've always identified whether it has Wrights by the depth of the cowling. The Pratts have a deep cowling and the Wrights have a shallower one. Picture's I've seen of Detroit indicates a shallow cowling. The original cowling had no cowl flaps, which is what is causing your problem with identification Later Wright cowlings also had cowl flaps, further shortening the appearance of the cowl. I don't know if that cowling is even available (nor desired) anymore as the engines tend to get warm on those summer afternoon even with the cowl flaps. The Wrights also have smaller oil coolers and have a large distributor in the 6 o'clock position at the front of the engine.

See these two comparisons -

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 4:55 pm

Here's a longer picture of Flagship Detroit that shows the shallower cowlings -

As well, notice how the exhaust stacks come out from behind the paneling. I have only seen that on Wright powered DC-3s.

Finally, if you go to the Flagship Detroit website and look at the pictures, you'll notice the metal ring attached to the engine cylinders. This is also a giveaway of Wright radials. The Pratt cowling only attaches via brackets to themselves and have no support from the engine other than some "feet" that sit against the engine cylinders.

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 12:21 am

Kevin,

Flagship Detroit and Flagship Knoxville are both definitely Wright powered, as were all original AA-ordered DC-3s and DSTs. I still haven't made contact with the folks I told you about regarding the Wright firewall forwards, but the 1820 would be correct to FST when new.

The original photos of her that you posted show the flat spot at the top of the cowlings common to the Wright powered airplanes. It is interesting that Hydromatic propellers have been fitted--FST was most likely delivered with the open-counterweight props.

Good stuff!
Scott

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 2:16 pm

Thanks, guys! This is why I asked. It is probably the cowl flaps that were throwing me off.

kevin

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Wed May 21, 2008 2:17 pm

Just wanted to post this information here, as I had posted it on another thread on the warbird page. We got this article forwarded to us by a friend. It raises the possibility that FST has a military career as well. I have never seen evidence of that career elsewhere, but maybe when we strip it down we'll get a few clues. Thoughts?

kevin

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:34 pm

Just an FYI for those who are interested...

Our team is in Oshkosh, WI TODAY beginning the process of dismantling Douglas DC-3 s/n 2131, former NC18141, known as "Flagship Tulsa!" They will be dismantling the aircraft into its major sections for transport by truck (thanks to the fine folks at Melton Trucking) from Oshkosh to Tulsa sometime next week.

Anyone in Oshkosh who wants to go over to turn a wrench and help out our guys, feel free to let me know. I'll put you in contact with the team. They are over at Basler Turbo Conversions taking the aircraft apart.

Woo-hoo!!!

kevin

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:41 pm

Excellent news, Kevin.

Scott

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:52 pm

Great project and good luck with it!

THe New England Air Museum has a Wright powered DC-3 that was a former American Airlines bird. It was built in 1942 and immediatly pressed into military service. After the war, it was sold to a different company, the right side door was removed and a standard left side door added.
Jerry

AviaS199 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:25 pm

IIRC ... Ernie Gann wrote that while most airlines used P&Ws on their DC3s, American worked out some sort of "exclusive" deal with Wright.

Good luck on the project, guys! She's going to look great someday.

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:28 pm

Thanks for the happy thoughts, guys! We're sure excited to get her back to Tulsa and into our hands. And taking some cues from some of the guys in Arizona, we plan on storing her pieces and parts in secure locations as the restoration progresses!

kevin

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:27 am

Avia,

American had used the Cyclone on their Vultees and the Curtiss Condors, so the obvious choice was to stay with what they knew best on the DC-3. I just read Gann's "A Hostage To Fortune" again recently, and he mentions how much smoother the P&W engines felt when he started flying for ATC.

It's interesting that the "standard" DC-3 had Wrights, and the DC-3A was Pratt powered.

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:14 am

Ok, folks... warning- this post is gonna set a personal record for most number of photos with one post. But I thought you'd appreciate being kept in the loop.

Our team arrived in Oshkosh and started taking Flagship Tulsa apart. With a great deal of help from the super folks at Basler Turbo Conversions (can't say enough nice things about those folks!!!) things have been progressing smoothly. Below are the photos... enjoy!

The team:

Let's start with the tail, shall we?

Anyone need a vintage 1980's Aero Libertad interior?

Now doesn't he look like he's been working hard?

Our team leader!

Right hand entry door- AA's signature!

Vertical gone:

And the horizontal...

And now the wings:

And stripped...

That's three days worth of work... fuselage is coming off of the center section as we speak! More photos when I have them.

kevin

mtpopejoy · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:57 am

Kevin,
What a great job you and your team are doing. Very quick progress. She looks to be in pretty good shape. Thanks for taking us all along for the ride.
Regards,
Mark

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DC-3 Flagship Tulsa Restoration

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