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Classic Wings Magazine Luftwaffe Resource Center WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:09 pm 
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For those of you who may not be familiar with the group, long known for its search for Amelia Earhart, here a former loyal member (amd admitted donor to the tune of $50,000) gives a concise overview of the group.

Interesting reading...

http://myplace.frontier.com/~monty.fowl ... alysis.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:43 pm 
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It does indeed make interesting reading: it's a shame that so many decent folks have put money into this "organization".


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:00 pm 
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wow! that is 1 scathing report. from the shear length of the report, the dissecting of the facts, raises many red flags that the author brings to light. tighar's replies to questions as to it's operations are vague at best. to invest money into any entity is one thing, as over time you can possibly retrieve what you put into it. in regard to TIME SPENT & WASTED........ THERE IS NO RECOVERY POSSIBLE. I value my time in many respects more than my money. I've followed all this from the beginning, & the research done thus far cements the questions asked in this article.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:07 pm 
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I'm not surprised at any of what was written. The writer's take on the whole thing is exactly what I've seen from the outside. Lots of efforts to raise money, lots of claims and promises, but few actual accomplishments or promises kept.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Now they're asking for people to donate $9.99 a month to help them look for Glenn Miller's Norseman.

What they don't mention seen to appreciate, that after almost 75 years, there is likely nothing left of the tube/fabric/wood airframe....and even if they find an engine, it may be too badly corroded get as serial off of...if they even know the serial.

Sounds like another endless search designed to appeal to the aeronautical layman, the trusting and gullible.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:06 am 
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At last.... Posted here is a full blown Critique of TIGHAR by a well known former member of that organisation, a former member of long standing and who was the personification of the word "donor" to the tune of $50,000.... It is a great pity that there are not more formal critiques by ex-Members of TIGHAR who have also been damaged. For there are many, many ex-Members who were "chucked out" of that organisation, had their log-ins blocked, or who have resigned after facing difficulties with the Leader of that organisation and who then had to basically resign in disgust. A differing opinion to that of the TIGHAR Leader inevitably brought self-destruction...

Full marks to the writer of the critique who has the guts to put his thoughts on paper and tell it as it is.

It reminds me that my own treatise of TIGHAR still remains on these boards tucked away on Page 3: "TIGHAR and the TIGHAR SCIENTIFIC METHODOLOGY", a four-part epistle, re-posted by an ex-member of TIGHAR after the thread "Is TIGHAR still at it ?" was shut down... It basically says the same as the titled critique with a view from a few years ago. (Last post was April 3, 2015).

Indeed, it does look to me that TIGHAR has given up on the search for Earhart, Noonan and the Electra and has now latched on the the Glen Miller mystery. The word "desperation" springs to mind..... That leaves my East New Britain project as the only search project for the Earhart Mystery, still currently active.

Regards,
David Billings
http://www.earhartsearchpng.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:55 am 
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Any news on this one? Flypast message board is busy with comment while this one seems to have been ignored. Fear of litigation?

Talk on FP is of legal challenges etc so it would seem worthy of discussion or clarification.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:44 am 
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Two reasons for lack of comments here...
-It's on the less visited Vintage Aviation section here since it's not about a warbird.
-I think folks are still afraid of a lawsuit. The Key Publishing members are less intimidated knowing the group won't file suit in the UK or Australia.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Any news on this one:

Quote:
Quemerford: Any news on this one? Flypast message board is busy with comment while this one seems to have been ignored. Fear of litigation? Talk on FP is of legal challenges etc so it would seem worthy of discussion or clarification.


There is little else to say really... The url critique in Post #1 just about says it all. If you recall Quemerford, there was a very, very long thread here called "Is TIGHAR still at it ?" which contained all the points about TIGHAR which have now, independently, been condensed very successfully by an ex-TIGHAR Member into a very succinct exposure of the organisation. The critique is notable because the writer was a very large donor to the organisation and enthusiastic..... and as he says, "A loyal TIGHAR" for many years... now the light bulb has gone on, he is saying things he could not possibly say on the TIGHAR Forum as a paid up Member, his critique would have been on the cutting room floor before you could say 'Jack Robinson'.....

Long time Followers, ex-Members and present Members must have been nodding their heads while reading the critique for it shows what is wrong with this "Non-profit" organisation from the top down.

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David Billings


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:07 pm 
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One thing that is unmistakable is their pattern of big promises followed by the failure to deliver over the years. Always some interesting new "potential gamebreaker" is just over the horizon, etc etc. From what I can see they have also shifted the description of themselves more in the direction of an educational entity rather that one that has any technical expertise what so ever in historic aircraft recovery. I'm sure they feel the heat. At this point facebook is the only reason they have a faint pulse. Meanwhile there is a guy who can see Amelia's lunchbox (covered in coral of course) offshore of gilligans island.

:drink3:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:17 pm 
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You forgot the Shoe Sole....

Pinecastle... You forgot the shoe sole declared as Earhart's which he did try to deliver but which was then declared instantly to be Noonan's when it was pointed out to him that it was too big to be Earhart's.....

From that, occasionally you will see 'Bill Posters' adding "Must be Noonan's then,..." when the opportunity arises...

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David Billings


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 am 
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Meanwhile, back on Papau New Guinea.....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:22 am 
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I never had any real issues with the group....
-I figured it was caveat emptor, if someone wanted to donate to the group, it was their own business/problem/issue. Same reason I don't picket the local Indian casino or fight against a certain money making "church" :)
But
-The was they handled the shoe, freckle cream jar, and just about everything else on the island claiming it had to be from AE while ignoring the other groups that resided on the island, some for long periods.
-The work they did to try to make the patch fit the Electra coming up with various scenarios to MAKE it fit. Rather like using a jigsaw on a jigsaw puzzle.
-Ditto the bones. If the doctor who examined them said they were from a male, or too big for AE, I believe he was attacked as an incompetent drunk. To make them fit, AE pilots license application/physical was also questioned, I believe they said she lied to make her taller in another attempt to make her fit the bones.
-neglected the other "mission" of aircraft recovery and focused on AE. I assumed it was because that's where the notoriety/fame/money was. Recovering a TBD wasn't going to get you on the Today show or a book deal or a meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
-The way the group, or member thereof, treated WIX.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:57 pm 
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TIGHAR attempts at discrediting other research

The Earhart Project has been TIGHAR’s main source of revenue and unquestionably it is their main project to date. They, meaning the members of TIGHAR, have done an incredible amount of research and due credit for the wealth of information which can be read on the TIGHAR website is due for that. In truth some research favours the TiGHAR brand and realistically some promoted ideas generated have to be taken with a pinch of salt. The very early promise to sort “Fact from Fiction” was not dutifully implanted in what could be read in many cases and picking out the fiction is a prerequisite on some matters.

When it came to “other entities” who were looking for a solution to the Earhart Mystery, TIGHAR became totally lacking in empathy and derided other researchers efforts. Notably in the case of “Crashed and Sank” researchers, TIGHAR has falsely stated many times that the case for ditching and loss at sea is a non-event because, if one Radio call heard from the Electra can be proved genuine after the supposed “loss time", then the Electra was on land. In this TIGHAR says some calls from the Electra are genuine but other radio experts do not consider the TiGHAR data produced to reflect that statement. TIGHAR blithely plows on with the statement, doesn’t listen to independent experts and so, ”Crashed and Sank" didn’t happen.

In my own case of The East New Britain Project, before I became involved, an Australian Army Veteran named Donald Angwin had been watching television and he heard during a documentary on Amelia Eahart that the Electra had been powered by “Wasp” engines and was still missing. Angwin who had been involved in finding a Wasp engine on the jungle floor on the island of New Britain, wrote to TIGHAR in 1990 and explained what had been seen on the Jungle floor in April 1945 and at that time in 1990, all that Donald Angwin knew was that a Pratt & Whitney Wasp had been found.

The leader at TIGHAR has a degree in History so I read and surely during the conflict that ensued in 1942 to late 1945, he would know that an aircraft powered by a Pratt & Whitney Wasp engine “in the low power range” would be in a precarious amount of danger by being sent anywhere near to the Japanese fortress of Rabaul where at any one time over a hundred fighter planes lurked. Therefore, low-powered aircraft would not be sent anywhere near to Rabaul.

Donald Angwin told me that the reply from TIGHAR, was rude and arrogant and he was surprised at the content and Donald told me when I joined the project, that he wanted nothing further to do with TIGHAR.

At this point in the story I have to mention that as a reader of the TIGHAR Forum since 1994, I have to remark that “any” slight mention on Earhart, Electra, P & W Wasp or anything to do with the missing duo or the aircraft that appears anywhere is immediately captured by TIGHAR and appears as information in the posts in the TIGHAR Thread on the Earhart Project.

In 1994, reading back in the threads, I could find no mention of Donald Angwin and his report to the Management of TIGHAR concerning the Wasp found on East New Britain.

In late 1994 we learned from the former Patrol Lieutenant, Ken Backhouse, that there was more wreckage than “just an engine” and that he had seen the wrecked aircraft thirty or so yards further on from the engine, covered in vines and tree debris. The wreckage was a twin-engined aircraft, was unpainted metal and bore no military insignia and looked as though it had been there for a good few years.

In 1996 I happened to be in Singapore on business and went to see the Pratt and Whitney Field Representatives in Singapore at the Loyang Industrial Estate. In 1994, we did know that the “Wasp” engine seen was associated with some information on a map and appeared to be an S3H1 variant rated at 600 H.P. (as written). I could at that time only find information that said the S3H1 Wasp was rated at 550 H.P., so I wondered what information could be had from the P&W Field office. The answer was “none” as the two Field Reps were both “Jet Men” and had not worked on Wasps. They asked what that was about and I told them. It was suggested that I write to “Big Pratts“ at Hartford, Connecticut.

Now, we know that the Electra Wasps were S3H1 “civilian” engines of 600 H.P. for T.O. when using 100 Octane gasoline. I can find no records of the S3H1 engine being in use in New Guinea before or during WWII, except for Earhart’s Electra and the single engine C.A.C. Wirraway aircraft which ran a three blade propeller, was a Geared engine and developed 650 H.P. in “military“ use. Post-war there were S3H1’s in New Guinea.

Some time later and back in the Air Niugini Office, I received a FAX from TIGHAR, signed by Richard Gillespie. Gillespie had heard from Andre Malo, one of the P&W Field Reps in Singapore and Gillespie wanted to know if this Wasp I had been speaking of i.e.; an S3H1 Wasp, was the same Wasp that he had been informed about by Corporal Donald Angwin. By this time I knew more about TIGHAR and Don Angwin’s words came back to me. I replied to Gillespie in a mode of “Cannot Confirm or Deny”.

Nothing of this exchange appeared in the TIGHAR Forum Earhart thread.

I did write to "Big Pratt's" at Hartford and seemingly the name was appropriate... because, despite my letter to the President of P & W being headed as marked "Confidential", the letter was turned over to Gillespie for his "opinion". Well, it goes without saying what his opinion would be. A return letter from one of P & W's minions was quite open in saying they had turned over a Confidential letter to a person who had absolutely no empathy with anyone else looking for the missing duo who might well be able to take funding revenue away from his "World's best archaeological non-profit organisation"...

In 2004, we went public with the first website and immediately in the Earhart thread on the TIGHAR Forum, TIGHAR Members asked Gillespie if he knew about the East New Britain Project. After not informing the Members as he should have done over the years, Gillespie then blithely said, Yes, he knew about it and from that day on denigrated the Project but not only that, he allowed posts on the TIGHAR Forum which sneered at the project and which, worse still; inferred that the Australian Army Veterans were liars.

I shall never forgive him for that.

David Billings
http://www.earhartsearchpng.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:49 pm 
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On the bright side of the news...
This exact thread over on the Key forum is still going strong and had has 8000 views and 77 replies.

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