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 Post subject: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:34 am 
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I have been looking everywhere for airshow pics and especially video of the Kimball/Eicher Gee Bee Z replica. I believe Delmar flew it to Oshkosh '97 or '98 and did his aerobatic routine with it. I have found pics of it at OSH, but have never seen video anywhere of it flying. Anyone know of any place to find a video of it?? Thanks :D


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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:38 pm 
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This is what you are looking for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s79LcCCszRQ

will never forget seeing Delmar flying the GeeBee at the Toronto International Airshow. Some amazing flying.

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:27 pm 
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No, that's Delmar's Gee Bee R-2 replica. I was looking for the Kimball/Eicher (the Pitts 12 guys) built Gee Bee model Z. The only model Z vids I can find are of Bill Turner's model Z from "The Rocketeer" but its not even close to the original. The fuselage was streached 2 feet and the wing 3 or 4 feet. The Kimball/Eicher replica is as accurate as it can possibly get. I know Delmar test flew it and pics were in SPORT AVIATION. Delmar flew it at Sun n Fun and Oshkosh as well as his R-2. I should email the Kimballs and see if they have any vids available.


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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:11 pm 
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The Museum of Flight @ KBFI has one on the main display floor in the Great Gallery-Fantasy of Flight has one-I believe Museum of Flying in Santa Monica also has one

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:35 pm 
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http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/index.php


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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:08 am 
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The Z at Santa Monica is the Bill Turner replica, and Kermit Weeks now owns the Kimball built Z as well as Delmar's R-2 replica. I went straight to the source and emailed Kevin Kimball tonight and he doesn't have anything for sale pic or vid wise on the model Z. :(
I guess maybe I'll email Delmar, but doubt if he would sell me a vid. Worth a shot I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:20 pm 
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skooterN2767K wrote:
I have been looking everywhere for airshow pics and especially video of the Kimball/Eicher Gee Bee Z replica. I believe Delmar flew it to Oshkosh '97 or '98 and did his aerobatic routine with it. I have found pics of it at OSH, but have never seen video anywhere of it flying. Anyone know of any place to find a video of it?? Thanks :D


I will ask Jeff Eicher about the videos. I believe the only video footage was shot when it made flights in FL with Delmar flying it and maybe again when Kermit flew it after he bought it. This Z was never flown at the Oshkosh airshow. Just static displayed at Sun N Fun and Oshkosh. Will let you know what Jeff says.

My favorite Golden Age Replica!

Sun N Fun taxing to the parking spot. I have the important job of holding the hat!
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Gee Bee Z photo shoot.
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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:11 am 
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skooterN2767K wrote:
The Z at Santa Monica is the Bill Turner replica, and Kermit Weeks now owns the Kimball built Z as well as Delmar's R-2 replica. I went straight to the source and emailed Kevin Kimball tonight and he doesn't have anything for sale pic or vid wise on the model Z. :(
I guess maybe I'll email Delmar, but doubt if he would sell me a vid. Worth a shot I guess.


Talked to Jeff last night. He has the video footage and hopes to get it moved to digital format soon.

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:47 am 
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I was under the impression that the original R-2 was practically a health hazard, and here's Delmar doing aerobatics right on the deck in a replica of one. Looks hair-raising to me, given the little I understand about this a/c. So what's the deal? Excellent flying, and/or a replica that's much improved over the original? If the latter, what are the improvements?

Thanks!

AIRIC wrote:
This is what you are looking for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s79LcCCszRQ

will never forget seeing Delmar flying the GeeBee at the Toronto International Airshow. Some amazing flying.

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Pogo wrote:
I was under the impression that the original R-2 was practically a health hazard, and here's Delmar doing aerobatics right on the deck in a replica of one. Looks hair-raising to me, given the little I understand about this a/c. So what's the deal? Excellent flying, and/or a replica that's much improved over the original? If the latter, what are the improvements?

Thanks!


In hearing the pilots of modern day Gee Bee replicas most have said yes.... there were and are tricky to fly. Consider the fact that in the 1930s when the originals were built these pilots were low time. They had learned to fly in low powered Wacos, Jennys, Travel Airs and Curtiss Robins! So to move up to high powered racing airplanes there wasnt much to go on as far as what these ships might handle like! Doolittle had flown a wide variety of high performance aircraft at the time... and went on to race the Gee Bee with success. The other pilots who crashed in Gee Bees just had different flying back grounds and might have given the Gee Bee its bad name based on their different flying skills and personal judgements. Delmar came from airshow flying in a Bucker and had flown various types of high performance aerobatic types. So his background looks to have prepared him for flying the Gee Bee well!

My 2 cents.

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Thanks for that. Seems like I recall reading in Doolittle's autobiography comments to the effect that it was rather a handful, nothing he was eager to hop in. The airframe certainly has every appearance of being a terror! I couldn't believe my eyes watching that video of Delmar doing inverted passes on the deck, knife-edge passes on the deck, etc., etc. I really truly never would have believed the R-2 capable of it if it wasn't right there in front of me (as it were).

Anyway, thanks again ...... guess I better let you get back to the Z model discussion now. Seriously cool airplane, btw. :)

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Pogo wrote:
Thanks for that. Seems like I recall reading in Doolittle's autobiography comments to the effect that it was rather a handful, nothing he was eager to hop in. The airframe certainly has every appearance of being a terror! I couldn't believe my eyes watching that video of Delmar doing inverted passes on the deck, knife-edge passes on the deck, etc., etc. I really truly never would have believed the R-2 capable of it if it wasn't right there in front of me (as it were).

Anyway, thanks again ...... guess I better let you get back to the Z model discussion now. Seriously cool airplane, btw. :)


Anything a Steve Wolf or the Kimballs build today is going to be night and day from what the Granville's (for all their talent) could build in their day. C170BDan's comments re: pilots are also relevant. Then consider the number of takeoff/landing accidents back in the day and the "fields" they were flying off of. No 7000' pavement.
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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:07 pm 
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I am looking for any of the great (late) Premo Galletti drawings? Does anyone have contact information with his friends or family who may have copies?

Any leads are very much appreciated.

Pirate Lex

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:44 pm 
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Location: Rhome, TX
The GBs used the latest high tech to get the edge on the competition. That being said they employed the M-6 airfoil on their aircraft. The Monk airfoils were the latest greatest airfoil series of the time. Low drag allowing higher speeds and performance. That being said the M series airfoils had one major flaw. When the airspeed decayed there was a major shift of the center of lift and center of pressure.

Mind you I am not an aerodynamicist (sp?) but what this means in layman's tongue is that when the airfoils reaches a slow speed it basically stops flying. Period. Not like modern airfoils which sort of slowly play out and you can feel the break coming. Lots of aerodynamic advancements since the 1930s. The M series were sort of an all or nothing type of airfoil. If you check the NACA L/D charts on the M series and compare it to something like a 23012 (Cessna 100 series) you will see quite a large difference in personality.

If you notice, everything Delmar did with the GB was fast. Rolls fast, knife edge fast, upside down fast, landings fast. Everything fast. Delmar has enough aeronautical piloting and engineering skill to know exactly what to expect. They are great airfoils when you are going fast. They are killers if you fly them slow like a Waco or a Travel Air. Many other aircraft used that series of airfoils with some success. The little poky Buhl Bull Pup even had a M-12 (12%) airfoil on it...

I thought the original Z crashed due to a fuel cap coming off and coming through the windscreen...

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 Post subject: Re: #2 GEE BEE Z Replica
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Everything was definitely done with plenty of speed, and low angle of attack. I saw this act many times at Reno and Oshkosh. You'll note that he never did loops or any high "G" maneuvers. Knife edge was flying with the fuselage as a wing and the airfoil probably didn't know if it was right side up or upside down.


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