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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Way down here in New Zealand I have been looking at a Harvard project for sale . It is a Canadian built Mk2B and only consists of the fuselage from the firewall rearwards. There is no centresection or wings.
I know you don't just wander into your local T6 parts shop and say I'd like a centresection and a set of wings and can I have them in yellow? (Ah if only you could!)
But how hard is it to find something so major and seperated from the fuselage? :?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:56 pm 
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Quote:
I know you don't just wander into your local T6 parts shop and say I'd like a centresection and a set of wings and can I have them in yellow? (Ah if only you could!)


Actually, you can. There are several places that specialize in the parts. Barnstormers recently had an ad selling a harvard center section, and it just so happened to be yellow. Fellow WIXER Tim Savage may be able to provide a rebuilt center section and most other sub assemblies in any color you would like. They may not be in your back yard, but there is still an abundance of T6/SNJ/Harvard parts out there. Ask my wife... :twisted:

I say go for it, times 'a wastin'!

Chunks


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:38 am 
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avenger2504 wrote:
Way down here in New Zealand I have been looking at a Harvard project for sale . It is a Canadian built Mk2B and only consists of the fuselage from the firewall rearwards. There is no centresection or wings.
<SNIP>
But how hard is it to find something so major and seperated from the fuselage? :?
I think the project you describe is too expensive even if it is free.

You can buy most anything and everything for a T-6 with a little scrounging, but unless all the parts you seek are already in NZ, good luck with the shipping costs for the larger parts.

People have been known to part out complete planes because the value of the individual parts is greater, except you'll be on the receiving end of those higher prices...

The engine overhaul will be at least $30K USD, and then you'll have to spend $15K or more for a core. Is the fuselage complete with the empennage and all controls? Hydraulic shelf? Electrical boxes? You'll be nickled and dimed to death, except it will be hundred and thousands of dollars at a time. Run away from this project fast!

Just my opinion of course. I had a fairly complete project when I started, but for the price of the hangar rent I have paid during my ownership of the aircraft I could have just bought one already flying.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:39 am 
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Thanks bdkand Chunks I thought that might be the case (and with the NZ dollar being what it is these days!) although I was impressed to find out so much is still available.
Oh and I've visited your website bdk and am very impressed with your SNJ (see I didn't call it a Harvard ha ha) she is a winner. If I ever get to restore one I hope she ends up looking half as good as yours.
Cheers
Baz


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:03 am 
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bdk wrote:
but for the price of the hangar rent I have paid during my ownership of the aircraft I could have just bought one already flying.


You wouldn't have had hangar rent if you had a flying aircraft from the get go?

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:46 pm 
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then you'll have to spend $15K or more for a core. Is the fuselage complete with the empennage and all controls? Hydraulic shelf? Electrical boxes? You'll be nickled and dimed to death, except it will be hundred and thousands of dollars at a time. Run away from this project fast!


I couldn't disagree more. There are plenty of good deals to be found on parts. You could probably get a package deal on a bundle of parts. I know where such deals are available. I don't think it right to discourage this guy out of it. I bet you you could get a package including a ctr section, landing gear and fuel tanks, all your misc parts (including hydraulic shelf and elec boxes and missing parts) for about $20,000, and an engine core for about $8,500. I can get you a pair of wings probably for $20k. There's a negative angle to everything, and dwelling on that to newcomers isn't very nice.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Fellow WIXER Tim Savage may be able to provide a rebuilt center section and most other sub assemblies in any color you would like.


Doesn't one of his restored T-6's cost close to $300,000? I'm pretty sure it'll cost you alot more than several I have access to.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:49 pm 
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skymstr02 wrote:
bdk wrote:
but for the price of the hangar rent I have paid during my ownership of the aircraft I could have just bought one already flying.


You wouldn't have had hangar rent if you had a flying aircraft from the get go?
Yes, but the hangar rent on my project is paid while the plane is unable to fly. My point is I could have saved the money and bought a nice flyer now and eliminated a whole lotta work (if that had been my goal).

A2C wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. There are plenty of good deals to be found on parts. You could probably get a package deal on a bundle of parts. I know where such deals are available. I don't think it right to discourage this guy out of it. I bet you you could get a package including a ctr section, landing gear and fuel tanks, all your misc parts (including hydraulic shelf and elec boxes and missing parts) for about $20,000, and an engine core for about $8,500. I can get you a pair of wings probably for $20k. There's a negative angle to everything, and dwelling on that to newcomers isn't very nice.
Oh brother! The guy asked for an OPINION and I gave it based upon my experience. So you're up to about $50K already, plus the cost of the fuselage, plus a $30K engine overhaul. You've already passed $80K and you haven't even started the restoration yet.

A2C wrote:
Quote:
Fellow WIXER Tim Savage may be able to provide a rebuilt center section and most other sub assemblies in any color you would like.


Doesn't one of his restored T-6's cost close to $300,000? I'm pretty sure it'll cost you alot more than several I have access to.
Naturally Tim can speak for himself, but he offers a premium restoration to like new condition. I suspect that his restorations are far nicer than the "several you have access to."

Even on my project which started with an essentially complete airplane I'm just working for free. There is no way I could sell the plane for more than I have into it. I started it because I was an entry level buyer, now I am in it for the challenge of actually finishing a project of that magnitude.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Oh brother! The guy asked for an OPINION and I gave it based upon my experience. So you're up to about $50K already, plus the cost of the fuselage, plus a $30K engine overhaul. You've already passed $80K and you haven't even started the restoration yet.


Yes, but.. There aren't too many more complete restorable planes out there. 99.9% are under restoration, or set aside and not for sale. So Avenger probably won't be able to find a complete deal, and you might have talked the guy out of it w/o realizing it.

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Doesn't one of his restored T-6's cost close to $300,000? I'm pretty sure it'll cost you alot more than several I have access to.
Naturally Tim can speak for himself, but he offers a premium restoration to like new condition. I suspect that his restorations are far nicer than the "several you have access to."


His work is good, but no better than new in terms of operating condition than most other restorations, if the others are done properly. In fact most restorations nowdays are probably better than the factory, because the factory was rushing them out for the war and all that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Woah didn't mean to stir up anything guys. My budget is pretty limited and I would hate to struggle to buy an airframe and then be unable to find the money to restore it. I sure don't want something to gather dust when it could be in the air.
I think at the moment the NZ dollar is about 58cents to the US dollar so buying in the US is even more expensive.
Thanks to everyone though your input is most welcome.
Baz


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Avenger:

If you want my opinion it's this:

Buy one major component at a time. ie your center section. While you save up for your next big piece, clean everything up and put together what you can. Before long you will be able to finish. My motto is "take baby steps". Do one minor task (1-2 hour) per day. They all add up, and the work you do doesn't undo itself-unless it's totally screwed up the first time. It is worth it, if you're into it. If you're into it, be prepared for 5-10 years of fun. If you're not into it, buy one airworthy or finance. I'm into it!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:15 pm 
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Baz, I'm glad you asked the question. I think it was a fun discussion. I don't think anyone's getting sideways about it, just different opinions and approaches.

When I bought my project, one of my closest friends begged me not to do it. He said the same thing that BDK said, that I was going to spend $500k in the end. I'm not currently in a position to spend $150k for a flying example, but when the time comes I have a good solid project.

When I was a kid, you couldn't sell a T6 for $5k, and when my dad was a kid the mustangs were less than that. I guess I've never been able to forgive him for not having a barn full of them to pass on to me. When my son gets old enough to start working on this thing, he won't be asking me why I didn't buy one when they were almost affordable.

Lastly, your location does limit the availability for local parts, but for me, some of my fondest memories have been driving across the country several times with a Ryder truck full of airplane parts....

I hear what BDK is saying, if you're planning on making your retirement from the sale of the T6 you built yourself, collecting one part at a time is not the way to go about it. As you can see from his website, and I know it's the case for me, it's the journey that's been so valuable for me.

Wow, that got long, sorry.

Chunks


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Well Said Chunks:

bdk's a good guy, but I don't always agree eveybody.

I would also say this:

As far as shipping parts. I've done some homework on that. There's a shipping agency in Long Beach, CA who quoted me $5000 to ship an entire single engine warbird from Southeast Asia to Long Beach, CA.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:36 am 
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Forgot your prop! Add $10-15K USD for a good used one. More if you want new blades (which are available).

P.S. My wife's an accountant, so I guess some of that has rubbed off on me. Stock prices are down, now's probably a good time to start saving and investing. In the 10 years A2C speaks of you might be able to just go out and pay cash for a nice flyer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Ah yes the all important prop! I'm passing all the good info to another chap who has shown an interest so we will wait and see. (Hope he's rich ha ha)


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