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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:06 am 
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Always looking for anybody who has contacts for MiG 21 & 23 parts in Eastern Europe, anybody who has experience putting MiGs together, and anybody interested in hanging out at the museum adding to the general merriment.

Also, anybody who has an interest in minutia like locating or fabricating the Buna/Nitrol seal that rides in a 6mm channel between the tail section and body of a MiG-23. I've looked everywhere... I'm stumped. :-)

Jon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Do you know Bernd?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Bernd wasn't there when I was around, but I think he came by on a couple of occasions...

http://www.cwam.org/wiki/index.php/MiG-23

Read the quotes. ;)


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 Post subject: Bernd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:31 am 
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I swap mail with Bernd a couple of times a month... he even agreed to be listed as one of the museum's advisers so long as there was no possibility that someone could add a goatee to his photograph.

He's the one who said, "Ich hoffe Ihr wißt was Ihr da macht! Ohh mein Gott... MiG-23 und fliegen... good luck!" and told me that the MiG-23 could shrink a fuel truck to the size of a Matchbox car. :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Starting work on MiG-21... trying to figure out how to get the wings on. May have a source in China for tires and parachutes... seat and drag chute.

Anybody have an idea what a drag chute should cost??

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:57 pm 
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I had a chance to talk to one of the mechanics who was at the 4477th TES during Constant Peg and he was a great source of moral support... it's nice to talk to someone else who's had the experience of having put together a 1:1 scale model of a Soviet airplane.

So I said that the fire detection system in the MiG-23, which is a capacitive loop offset with porcelain standoffs, was a kind-of odd way of doing things. He agreed -- he said that the Soviets were ahead of us on several things, but fire detection wasn't one of them. He brought over the fire detection stuff from the F-4 and retrofitted it in the MiG-23... wowsie.

Seems the F-4 was a source for more than that. Tires for the MiG-23? Used F-4 tires. Drag chutes? Used F-4 drag chutes.

Hey, this is getting easier... I just need to find an F-4 to cannibalize! :-)

I noted that the fire suppression system in the MiG-23 seems pretty anemic. He agreed... it doesn't seem like it's good for putting a fire OUT, just for slowing it down so the pilot can get away. Personally, I was hoping to fly with something a bit more stout.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Hi jonboede:

Ah you live in Texas. Do you have an oil rig at the airport so you can run that MiG 23? :D

I think you will have the only airworthy -23 in the USA.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Dave Cannavo has two airworthy ones in Delaware. One flies semi-regularly. There are six more in West Texas that are ready to fly but I think they are going to do government contracts.

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 Post subject: engine test
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:39 am 
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We're looking to do engine tests on the MiG-21 and MiG-23 in April (much finger crossing).

Anybody have experience building a cable tie-down for afterburner tests? The MiG-23 has about 22,000 lbs of thrust, and we don't happen to have a tank we can just tie it off to*. What are we going to need to bury in the ground to anchor the cables?

The airport manager is concerned we're going to melt his tarmac. Anybody have any opinions on that?

Jon

* If anybody is interested in tanks, I know a nice Bulgarian arms dealer that can get you all the T-34, T-54/55, and even T-72 tanks you want. Price roughly follows the model number (about $52k for a T-55, about $70k for a T-72). Also things like a BTR-60 for less than $20k. Doesn't include shipping. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: engine test
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:33 pm 
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jonboede wrote:
The airport manager is concerned we're going to melt his tarmac. Anybody have any opinions on that?
A T-33 with a flat main strut will melt asphalt.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:42 am 
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A T-33 with a flat main strut will melt asphalt.


Been there, done that!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:45 am 
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A MiG 15 did not even need a flat strut, and a F-8 can start a very nice grass fire when parts come shooting out the tail pipe during a burner test..........

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Jon: Just for a reference point.....our tie downs have to be pull tested to 80,000+ #'s for our birds. Requirements are 2x max thrust of the engine and we don't use cables. Our tiebacks are stainless bars with a 2" thick binocular shaped link coupled together and to the ground point via nice large shackles.

You might look at using a pair of heavy duty wreckers in a "Y" configuration as holdbacks rather than trying to devise and install a deadman system on the airport grounds. Just remember to run the static load calculations so that you know that loads the rigs see are well within their capabilities. Sit one on each of the short legs of the "Y" and run the cables out as much as you can and use a properly rated snatch block at the base of the wreckers. You want the lines to be as low as possible so that the pull will be as flat as possible.

As to melting asphalt....we can do it in a mil power run up to 50' behind the tailpipe and almost 100' back in a max buner run.

The big thing to remember if you use cables, is to make completely sure that you have as few crew around the aircraft during the time the cables are under tension from the run. Also make sure the area in a circle around the test pad area is cleared of people far enough back so that a cable failure won't catch anyone. Cable whips are not pretty.....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:56 pm 
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Jon, have you talked to Arb about seeing if you can use the Guy Joe stub? Without SilverState, it's unused again except for Guy Joe's son when he takes the Pitts out on occasion. Put the plane on the north end of the stub facing south and have the fire department put down water behind it on the grass and you should be okay. Area is somewhat downsloping to the north, so you should have some extra clearance. Should be easier to set anchors there too if you need to.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Jon, I have a couple of things to add;

PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE F4 PARTS ! :D

Next, we use an industrial cable bridle used in crane rigging. The one we have has a tensile test strength to at least 40,000 lbs. I think it's 5/8" cable. We only run 1 engine at a time and we can do burner runs with it. We tie down to a bolt set in an inactive runway at Ellington. Everyone at EFD has used it at one time or another. It's about a 3-4 inch bolt with a couple of the appropriate nuts on top. Aircraft that have used it F-4,F101,F-16,T-38, WB57,and KC135.

We back the cable up with a heavy duty DOT rated chain. Hook up to your holdback, pull tension then chock behind the wheel to eliminate rollback.

At the engine shop in Stockton,CA they put down a fixture in a 12ft hole then backfilled with concrete. The engine runup trailer then ties to the steel left above ground.

Image

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