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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:05 pm 
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The more you share informantion, hints, tips, cautions, etc. the more the overall general knowledge base is expanded. I agree that it's all just 'common sense stuff' but if it didn't get re-enforced, more injuries and deaths will occour because all will be thinking 'that guy knows better than that, everybody knows not to do that'. Maybe the guy is new, maybe they came from an inside job, maybe it's his (or her) first day on the job in a brand new career, ASSUME NOTHING! People get seriously dead from others making assumptions.

It's also good to jog everyone off of dead center in their thinking because you get so used to what you're doing you become 'married to your job' and fail to watch the little things. Why do you think that States are banning texting and non-hands free cell phones in cars?

So, no, you were not out of line for posting it because you stimulated an interesting and informative series of responses-no one contributing tried to make light of or joke around about any parts of it. In any form, safety is no accident.

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Being a retired Aircraft Crew Chief for the USAF, I know of several times when safety was but on hold for stats or the MISSION. Never a major safety issue, but often using old seals vs getting new ones because it would take longer to get the job done.

Maintenance safety has been reason for "Down Days" in the USAF several time I can remember to ensure everyone is briefed on importance of it.

I have been yelled at several time for following the book and not streaching things out for stats stake. But if the TO said it was wrong or worn I wrote it up and often grounded a plane when the bosses said not to. They yelled at me, but I was in the right, and they knew it, so nothing ever came of it.

Kurt

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:09 am 
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I tell my students to use the tactic I've used, without fail, for 40+ years, it goes like this-

'Thats done, sign it off' "Who said it's done?" 'The tie - in book says days sold off everything but the final buy-off' "I'm not signing it off until I personally look it over" 'Just sign it off, the friggin' plane has to go to the line' "You send me an E mail telling me to sign it off before I'll go near it (used to be write and sign a note and give it to me) that way, in court, you can't claim you were in the can when the paperwork got signed off and you don't know anything about it, and never told me to sign it off" 'Just sign it off willya?'-- at this point I get out my wallet and dig out my A&P license, hold it about 3 inches from the perpetrators nose and tell them "You like it, YOU sign it off, I'm NOT going to jail because you're in a hurry, any questions you want to ask me, you can meet me over by the phone, I'm calling the FAA and HR about this, you can go to prison, I'm not going to go to prison just to make your bean count look good"

And stick to your friggin' guns! Don't let some disinterested bean counter 'boss' bullyrag you into doing something wrong or illegal!

'You could lose your job if you don't' "Perhaps, but I seriously doubt a lawyer and HR would see it that way" (besides, you were looking for work when you found this, and there's always work to be found. Go learn to drive a city bus until things pick up)and if that's the way that employer operates, do you really want to keep that job? I've had friends who've worked for a certain freight dog, and I have been told by them 'if you see their junk coming, run to get out from under it, because something is going to fall off'. (and they are based well to the East of my locale)

Another caution I pass along to newbies is to always remember that 'Everybody you work with is a liar', don't ever be dumb enough to take someones word for something when it's literally lives and deaths until you can verify with your own two eyes it's done, and most importantly, done right' If you do the work exactly 'by the book' and something goes wrong and you can document you were working to the manuals, literally, your a$$ is covered, 'my leadman told me too..'won't hold up in court and you becaome a division of the Widow Jones, a woman in a Black dress and three crying children are tough to beat in court, and personally, I'd rather not share a very small single room with someone who's name is 'BUBBA' and is covered in gang tattoos.

You might think I'm being pretty cavalier about the employment action threat, but at least in the state of Washington, the labor laws state the employer either terminate with cause, or remain silent, implied threats of termination are a very serious violation of Washington's RCW codes (revised code of Washinton, our day to day laws here) with big fines and penalties to the employer up to and including locking the place up. plus. I've never really had a big problem finding work enough to pay the bills even in this type economy, what are they gonna do? take away your Birthday?

Besides, I have numbers that stick in my head concerning improper maintenance and/or bean counters- numbers like AA191, UAL 232, ASA 267, etc. etc, where 'we're in too much of a hurry, never mind the manual' lead to the inevitable, and they pop to the surface everytime I see poorly or improperly done maintenance, and I sort of wonder about those passengers final 95 seconds on earth-

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:49 pm 
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I missed the first post, but I have to say that I love to hear of A & P's who are doing the right thing. I am a few labs away from completing my own A & P, and folks like you are the ones I respect and whose honesty made me want to become one myself. The school I attend has a strong focus on making the point of always doing what's right- and it's so good to hear it echoed in the real world.

Thanks for the dedication to doing the right thing!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:20 am 
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RandolphB,

My thanks to you for letting me (and all the other, gray haired me's)know that responsible people will be there to pick up the flag when we bail out and hit the porch-Stick to your principles!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:55 am 
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Why all the talk about safety? Isn't safety simply a byproduct of doing the job right and taking pride in it? I think dwelling too much on safety may suggest fear and that something might be wrong.

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Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:41 am 
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If you need to ask, you just don't understand the importance-

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Jetstar Mech, thanks for bringing up this post. I whole heartedly agree with the Inspector, and Jet Mech. Randolph, take the advice from these types of "old gray hairs". I myself have been working on airplanes for over 20 years, ever since I got out of high school and went in the Air Force and have seen a lot of EWO and Red Ball maintenance in and out of the service. That is maintenance that is done quickly and not necessarily correctly for the sake of the mission or the schedule. I absolutely agree with the Inspectors stance of telling the guy pressuring you to sign it off himself if he's in such a hurry. Doing it right may take longer, but death is forever. My rule of thumb is asking myself "would I put my kid on this plane?" (BTW - I do have a kid and love him more than life).

At the VFM, I have implemented Standard Operating Procedures that anyone working on a plane must follow. It includes a Required Inspection Item program - another set of eyeballs must look over any safety of flight type maintenance.

Jetstar Mech, there's always time to talk about safety. Thanks for bringing it up. Sometimes us warbird guys get the reputation of wrench in one hand and beer can in the other and a "get'r dun" attitude with no regard to safety. Work like you will have to defend it in court, that way you won't have to.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Ok, I read it again, and totally agree. There the bottom line to get something done, but then there's taking shortcuts. Generally speaking, shortcuts are dumb. It sounds like these maintenence shops are getting ridiculous. I suppose you could put the management on notice (with a tape recorder in hand) that if they push the envelope too far to the point of creating safety hazards, that you will be a whistle-blower. I'm sure that will keep them honest. :D

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"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:41 pm 
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A2C,
Unfortunately often times mgt has the upper hand in that they hold your paycheck in thier hand. If you won't do it they can always find some other slouch of a mechanic that will. With the job market these days there are a lot of hungry A&P's out there right now who need to put food on the table. With that said, most companies that I have worked for and dealt with are good, law abiding companies that put safety first. Poor quality work does not bring repeat customers. Most people are ok with paying for a little extra labor if it means that the job is done right. Those who aren't ok with it, need to be charged extra anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Quote:
I've been warned about the warbird community as a bunch
of guys that have large egos and big chips on the shoulders.
But never excpected it would be part of the maintenence area.
The warbird flyers have to carry that chip because that is who they are.
Pilots tend to be that way.
I never thought that it would extend to the maintenence guys...
I'm a mechanic that would be happy working on a Cessna 152
and or a jet.
I've had the real treat of being able to work on some real warbirds,
jets etc.
This I will remember for a lifetime as a mechanic.
I'm more concerned that they are trying to impress others,
I know that these mechanics will do a great job and will not let
a aircraft fly unless it is safe to fly.
Out Here


THat may be a true statement, but how does it apply to this discussion? I'm not seeing any ego here..

_________________
"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:03 pm 
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I have not seen egos on the maintenance side, but in the main board area, yes I have.

Most mechanics I know are worried more about the warbirds they work on then impressing someone.

_________________
A-7D, the Short Little Ugly "Flyer" and A-10A Warthog, weren't called an ATTACK plane for nothing. Remember for a little relief on the ground, call your local Air Force to "Go Ugly Early"!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Quote:
I have not seen egos on the maintenance side, but in the main board area, yes I have.

Most mechanics I know are worried more about the warbirds they work on then impressing someone.


Yes and no, notice the people with the egos are those other than the people who really own and fly. However, they are in the main board area and interestingly they tend to be trolls.

_________________
"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!


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