Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:11 pm
Hello All,
I am currently working on the airworthy restoration of a Hawker Typhoon in British Columbia, and am looking for people that may be able to help identify the Hamilton Standard blade, spider and hub numbers for the 14 foot diameter propeller that was used on certain variants of the Corsair. Of course, due to the scope of this project, I am always looking for information relating to the Typhoon and Sabre engine and would warmly welcome any leads on bits and pieces!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Ian
I am currently working on the airworthy restoration of a Hawker Typhoon in British Columbia, and am looking for people that may be able to help identify the Hamilton Standard blade, spider and hub numbers for the 14 foot diameter propeller that was used on certain variants of the Corsair. Of course, due to the scope of this project, I am always looking for information relating to the Typhoon and Sabre engine and would warmly welcome any leads on bits and pieces!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Ian
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:41 am
Welcome to WIX, Ian.
I (like many others here) scrounge and trade chunks of old airplanes quite a bit; will contact you first with any Tiffy goodies.
Any further developments on a website?
I (like many others here) scrounge and trade chunks of old airplanes quite a bit; will contact you first with any Tiffy goodies.
Any further developments on a website?
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:07 pm
Thank you Dan,
I am still working on the website, and hope to have it live in the coming months. Currently I am going through and creating an inventory of parts on hand and itemizing parts that will be required to move the project to the next stage. I was very fortunate in being able to purchase Roger Marley's collection from the UK, and combine it with a few of my own pieces and a good deal of factory drawings. The Material is on hand for the rear fuselage jig construction and I hope that I can soon begin CNC routing of the form blocks for the frame members. Once the rear fuselage is completed, the cockpit section will be dismantled and re-constructed using new materials. The tail section has proven to be quite interesting, while common knowledge shows the tail is similar to the Tempest, there are actually quite a few significant differences when you look at each rib and bulkhead; that being said, any Tempest parts are still being looked at as I work towards a solution.
Early indications suggest that the project's Sabre came out of Typhoon EK228, and I am working of confirming this and finding out any details available. Always on the hunt for another engine and wishfully hoping to find a barn full of them!
One the site is launched I will be sure to include the inventory and parts needed list.
I am still working on the website, and hope to have it live in the coming months. Currently I am going through and creating an inventory of parts on hand and itemizing parts that will be required to move the project to the next stage. I was very fortunate in being able to purchase Roger Marley's collection from the UK, and combine it with a few of my own pieces and a good deal of factory drawings. The Material is on hand for the rear fuselage jig construction and I hope that I can soon begin CNC routing of the form blocks for the frame members. Once the rear fuselage is completed, the cockpit section will be dismantled and re-constructed using new materials. The tail section has proven to be quite interesting, while common knowledge shows the tail is similar to the Tempest, there are actually quite a few significant differences when you look at each rib and bulkhead; that being said, any Tempest parts are still being looked at as I work towards a solution.
Early indications suggest that the project's Sabre came out of Typhoon EK228, and I am working of confirming this and finding out any details available. Always on the hunt for another engine and wishfully hoping to find a barn full of them!
One the site is launched I will be sure to include the inventory and parts needed list.
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:40 am
Many thanks for the response, Ian!
But now...for the really tough question:
Car door or bubble top?
But now...for the really tough question:
Car door or bubble top?
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:53 pm
Hi Dan,
Great shot of the car door!
Although JP843 was built with the car door canopy, it was modified with the sliding hood. I have yet to confirm if it was fitted with the larger tail surface and 4 bladed propeller, but the goal with the project is for it to be fitted with the 4 bladed prop simply due to the fact it helped reduce the vibration that was always an issue with the Typhoon. At the moment I've got some 3 bladed components and am searching for the correct 4 blade bits.
If the project goes faster than expected I may just have to build a second with the car door! I don't see being able to fly through faster than a few decades though, but it would be nice to see both variants; even if oxygen was required to fly one!
Great shot of the car door!
Although JP843 was built with the car door canopy, it was modified with the sliding hood. I have yet to confirm if it was fitted with the larger tail surface and 4 bladed propeller, but the goal with the project is for it to be fitted with the 4 bladed prop simply due to the fact it helped reduce the vibration that was always an issue with the Typhoon. At the moment I've got some 3 bladed components and am searching for the correct 4 blade bits.
If the project goes faster than expected I may just have to build a second with the car door! I don't see being able to fly through faster than a few decades though, but it would be nice to see both variants; even if oxygen was required to fly one!
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:22 am
Hawker_Typhoon wrote:Hi Dan,
Great shot of the car door!
Although JP843 was built with the car door canopy, it was modified with the sliding hood. I have yet to confirm if it was fitted with the larger tail surface and 4 bladed propeller, but the goal with the project is for it to be fitted with the 4 bladed prop simply due to the fact it helped reduce the vibration that was always an issue with the Typhoon. At the moment I've got some 3 bladed components and am searching for the correct 4 blade bits.
If the project goes faster than expected I may just have to build a second with the car door! I don't see being able to fly through faster than a few decades though, but it would be nice to see both variants; even if oxygen was required to fly one!
It's settled then: Car door with a four-blader...R8943
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:57 am
Car door looks SO good on a Typhoon 
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:27 pm
Hi All,
We're still working on the website launch, but have put up a Facebook page if you're interested in keeping up to date with the project. Once the website is up and running we will provide a link on the Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hawker-T ... 9957145489
Best regards,
Ian
We're still working on the website launch, but have put up a Facebook page if you're interested in keeping up to date with the project. Once the website is up and running we will provide a link on the Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hawker-T ... 9957145489
Best regards,
Ian
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:49 pm
Hawker_Typhoon wrote:Hi All,
We're still working on the website launch, but have put up a Facebook page if you're interested in keeping up to date with the project. Once the website is up and running we will provide a link on the Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hawker-T ... 9957145489
Best regards,
Ian
Thanks for letting us tag along, Ian!
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:54 pm
We just completed scanning of MN235's wing, the data will be used to help reverse engineer internal components once it's time to tackle the wing for JP843. Some information and photo's can be found on our Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Hawker-Typhoon ... 957145489/
https://www.facebook.com/Hawker-Typhoon ... 957145489/
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:15 pm
I look forward to following this project. It promises to be very interesting
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:51 am
Me too! Wonderfully interesting project!
But, I know first-hand how complicated it can be. At Vintage Wings right now, in that line, we are restoring a Spit IX, a Hurri XII, a Fury biplane and a Swordfish.
I don't think we have any Typhoon/Tempest bits, but if in your travels you locate anything we might use in these restorations -- particularly Pegasus/Mercury parts, or Kestrel, please let me know.
If you haven't already visited us, let me know next time you're in Ottawa, and I'll arrange it. Glad to buy you a beer, anyway.
What state is your Sabre in?
Dave
But, I know first-hand how complicated it can be. At Vintage Wings right now, in that line, we are restoring a Spit IX, a Hurri XII, a Fury biplane and a Swordfish.
I don't think we have any Typhoon/Tempest bits, but if in your travels you locate anything we might use in these restorations -- particularly Pegasus/Mercury parts, or Kestrel, please let me know.
If you haven't already visited us, let me know next time you're in Ottawa, and I'll arrange it. Glad to buy you a beer, anyway.
What state is your Sabre in?
Dave
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:08 pm
Hi Dave,
I've spent some time at Vintage Wings in the past, and have received some excellent help in the early stages of this project. Sadly, during the scan of MN235, the schedule was too tight to come by for a visit; but I'll take that beer next time!
The Sabre is a recover engine, pictures are posted on the Facebook page if interested; initially the plan was to soak the engine in a bath and disassemble, but I'm now looking at options to trade for a less historically significant engine in an effort to preserve this one in a museum. 3D scanning and reverse engineering will have to be used for the engine too, it will be a very slow, very expensive endeavour.
I've spent some time at Vintage Wings in the past, and have received some excellent help in the early stages of this project. Sadly, during the scan of MN235, the schedule was too tight to come by for a visit; but I'll take that beer next time!
The Sabre is a recover engine, pictures are posted on the Facebook page if interested; initially the plan was to soak the engine in a bath and disassemble, but I'm now looking at options to trade for a less historically significant engine in an effort to preserve this one in a museum. 3D scanning and reverse engineering will have to be used for the engine too, it will be a very slow, very expensive endeavour.
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:26 am
Re: Canadian Hawker Typhoon Project
Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:25 pm
A wonderful project indeed.
Some interesting reading
Typhoon Modifications
February 5, 1944
3. With regard to (b)*, I am completely at a loss to understand the statement about the TYPHOON on page 5 of the Report. I can only assume that the defects referred to are the troubles experienced with the tail unit of the aircraft and with the Sabre engine. Both these troubles were, however, experienced much earlier (May or June, 1943) and have been overcome. I cannot believe that work on either the TYPHOON or the Sabre engine at this time was allowed to suffer by the transfer of the draughtsmen to help in the development of post-war civil aircraft. I have been unable to obtain any confirmation of this in the M.A.P. (Ministry of Aircraft Production) and both D/C.R.D. and I doubt the accuracy of this statement.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
* refers to a previous minute that wasn't available.
March 25, 1944 SECRETARY OF STATE.
When I said in Minute 4 that the TYPHOON troubles had been overcome I referred, of course, to the major problems of the tail structure and the Sabre engine, and it was these problems to which, I believe, Prof. Appleton was referring. The difficulty due to oil leaks from the 4-bladed propeller is a very more recent trouble.
2. Perhaps it will be as well if I give you a brief history of the TYPHOON difficulties. The original aircraft fitted with a three bladed propeller presented two problems; the first was a serious vibration which was very difficult to eradicate, and the second was a failure in the air of a few aircraft, the cause of which could not be attributed to any particular defect. It was apparently due to the sum of several causes of which the vibration may have been one. Individually none of the defects would have caused failure. The failures were few in proportion to the total hours flown and, as the various possible causes were eliminated, the risk of failure became sufficiently remote to be an acceptable risk. Nevertheless, it is our endeavor to eradicate completely from British aircraft any weakness of this nature, however slight risk, and to this end the four bladed propeller and the TEMPEST tail were introduced.
3. When the four bladed propeller came into use it was found to leak oil (from the propeller and not from the engine) to an extent which may be unacceptable for operational use. We have, therefore. Been compelled to revert to the three bladed propeller until such time as we find a satisfactory remedy for the oil leak.
4. In reverting to the three bladed propeller it is necessary also to introduce a modification to the TEMPEST type tail plane in order to prevent recurrence of the vibration trouble. This involves fitting 10-lb., weights in the tail plane tips. There are some 70 TYPHOONS in Maintenance Units with TEMPEST type tail planes which must be modified before the are issued to the Service, and it may be modified before they are issued to the Service, and it may be the hiatus that this will cause which gave rise to the report that the serviceability and operational strength of the TYPHOON Squadrons is seriously low. Special arrangements have been made to modify these aircraft; they are being done at the rate of ten a day and all seventy should be completed by the end of this week. The situation is, therefore, not serious.
5. With regard to curing the leaking oil trouble, the Americans experienced the same thing with their MUSTANG aircraft which have four bladed Hamilton propellers very similar to the four bladed De Havilland propellers on our TYPHOONS. The Americans found a satisfactory cure by fitting a special seal and we were able to obtain from them a small number of these seals, which we are now trying out for our four bladed TYPHOON propellers. It seems likely that they will be successful, but we are unable to obtain from the Americans in this country more than the small number required for trials, as they have only sufficient to meet their own needs. Arrangements have, therefore, been made to obtain a supply from America, but these will not be available in the country before May. Other arrangements have, therefore, been made to manufacture similar seals in the country and sufficient of these should be coming available in tow or three weeks' time to meet requirements of the De Havilland propeller assembly line. I have been unable to obtain any confirmation of the report that seals have been lost in transit.
6. The TYPHOON with the TEMPEST tail and four bladed propeller has been thoroughly tested and will be satisfactory when we have overcome the leaking oil trouble. We believe that the American pattern seal will cure this trouble and trials are in progress, but they have not yet done sufficient flying time for any more definite statement than this.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
March 26, 1944
A.C.A.S. (T.R.)
Please let me know, when the trials of the four bladed propeller with the seals have been completed, wether it is satisfactory. At the same time, I should be grateful if you would confirm that the 70 Typhoons in Maintenance Units have been modified and delivered to the Command. I should also be grateful if you would tell me at the same time whether there is any, and if so what, difference between the performance of the Typhoon with the four bladed propeller and the Tempest tail and that of the old Typhoon with the three bladed propeller.
April 10, 1944
SECRETARY OF STATE.
The trials of the four bladed propeller with the seals have now been satisfactorily completed, but we shall not be completely satisfied until they have done intensive flying in the Service. The four bladed propellers fitted with the seals have already been despatched for fitting to aircraft on the Hawker production line and modified propellers will be sent for the Gloster production line early next week. The expected delivery of the modified propellers is 50 per week. Retrospective fitting to aircraft already produced will be arranged as soon as supplies of the propellers become surplus to production line commitments.
2. The number of Typhoon aircraft with Tempest tail plane and three bladed propellers which had been modified in Maintenance Units with the 10 lb., weight in the tail plane tips was 85 up to Saturday, 1st April 1944, and later arrivals are being modified at the rate of 7 a day. Modified aircraft are being delivered to the Command as required.
3. The only important difference in performance between the Typhoon with the four bladed propeller and the Tempest tail plane, and the old type with the three bladed propeller is that the four bladed propeller had improved take-off by reduction of some 150-200ft.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
Regards Duggy
Some interesting reading
Typhoon Modifications
February 5, 1944
3. With regard to (b)*, I am completely at a loss to understand the statement about the TYPHOON on page 5 of the Report. I can only assume that the defects referred to are the troubles experienced with the tail unit of the aircraft and with the Sabre engine. Both these troubles were, however, experienced much earlier (May or June, 1943) and have been overcome. I cannot believe that work on either the TYPHOON or the Sabre engine at this time was allowed to suffer by the transfer of the draughtsmen to help in the development of post-war civil aircraft. I have been unable to obtain any confirmation of this in the M.A.P. (Ministry of Aircraft Production) and both D/C.R.D. and I doubt the accuracy of this statement.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
* refers to a previous minute that wasn't available.
March 25, 1944 SECRETARY OF STATE.
When I said in Minute 4 that the TYPHOON troubles had been overcome I referred, of course, to the major problems of the tail structure and the Sabre engine, and it was these problems to which, I believe, Prof. Appleton was referring. The difficulty due to oil leaks from the 4-bladed propeller is a very more recent trouble.
2. Perhaps it will be as well if I give you a brief history of the TYPHOON difficulties. The original aircraft fitted with a three bladed propeller presented two problems; the first was a serious vibration which was very difficult to eradicate, and the second was a failure in the air of a few aircraft, the cause of which could not be attributed to any particular defect. It was apparently due to the sum of several causes of which the vibration may have been one. Individually none of the defects would have caused failure. The failures were few in proportion to the total hours flown and, as the various possible causes were eliminated, the risk of failure became sufficiently remote to be an acceptable risk. Nevertheless, it is our endeavor to eradicate completely from British aircraft any weakness of this nature, however slight risk, and to this end the four bladed propeller and the TEMPEST tail were introduced.
3. When the four bladed propeller came into use it was found to leak oil (from the propeller and not from the engine) to an extent which may be unacceptable for operational use. We have, therefore. Been compelled to revert to the three bladed propeller until such time as we find a satisfactory remedy for the oil leak.
4. In reverting to the three bladed propeller it is necessary also to introduce a modification to the TEMPEST type tail plane in order to prevent recurrence of the vibration trouble. This involves fitting 10-lb., weights in the tail plane tips. There are some 70 TYPHOONS in Maintenance Units with TEMPEST type tail planes which must be modified before the are issued to the Service, and it may be modified before they are issued to the Service, and it may be the hiatus that this will cause which gave rise to the report that the serviceability and operational strength of the TYPHOON Squadrons is seriously low. Special arrangements have been made to modify these aircraft; they are being done at the rate of ten a day and all seventy should be completed by the end of this week. The situation is, therefore, not serious.
5. With regard to curing the leaking oil trouble, the Americans experienced the same thing with their MUSTANG aircraft which have four bladed Hamilton propellers very similar to the four bladed De Havilland propellers on our TYPHOONS. The Americans found a satisfactory cure by fitting a special seal and we were able to obtain from them a small number of these seals, which we are now trying out for our four bladed TYPHOON propellers. It seems likely that they will be successful, but we are unable to obtain from the Americans in this country more than the small number required for trials, as they have only sufficient to meet their own needs. Arrangements have, therefore, been made to obtain a supply from America, but these will not be available in the country before May. Other arrangements have, therefore, been made to manufacture similar seals in the country and sufficient of these should be coming available in tow or three weeks' time to meet requirements of the De Havilland propeller assembly line. I have been unable to obtain any confirmation of the report that seals have been lost in transit.
6. The TYPHOON with the TEMPEST tail and four bladed propeller has been thoroughly tested and will be satisfactory when we have overcome the leaking oil trouble. We believe that the American pattern seal will cure this trouble and trials are in progress, but they have not yet done sufficient flying time for any more definite statement than this.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
March 26, 1944
A.C.A.S. (T.R.)
Please let me know, when the trials of the four bladed propeller with the seals have been completed, wether it is satisfactory. At the same time, I should be grateful if you would confirm that the 70 Typhoons in Maintenance Units have been modified and delivered to the Command. I should also be grateful if you would tell me at the same time whether there is any, and if so what, difference between the performance of the Typhoon with the four bladed propeller and the Tempest tail and that of the old Typhoon with the three bladed propeller.
April 10, 1944
SECRETARY OF STATE.
The trials of the four bladed propeller with the seals have now been satisfactorily completed, but we shall not be completely satisfied until they have done intensive flying in the Service. The four bladed propellers fitted with the seals have already been despatched for fitting to aircraft on the Hawker production line and modified propellers will be sent for the Gloster production line early next week. The expected delivery of the modified propellers is 50 per week. Retrospective fitting to aircraft already produced will be arranged as soon as supplies of the propellers become surplus to production line commitments.
2. The number of Typhoon aircraft with Tempest tail plane and three bladed propellers which had been modified in Maintenance Units with the 10 lb., weight in the tail plane tips was 85 up to Saturday, 1st April 1944, and later arrivals are being modified at the rate of 7 a day. Modified aircraft are being delivered to the Command as required.
3. The only important difference in performance between the Typhoon with the four bladed propeller and the Tempest tail plane, and the old type with the three bladed propeller is that the four bladed propeller had improved take-off by reduction of some 150-200ft.
Sgd. Air Vice Marshall J.D. Breakey, DFC. A.C.A.S. (T.R.) Air Ministry
Regards Duggy