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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:30 pm 
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For some time now, I have been working on an article about the legend of the ball turret gunner who was crushed on landing. It actually started as just one entry in a whole list of common questions and answers that get asked by guests at the museum. However, it is now by far the longest entry on the list and worthy of a standalone article. After writing most of it, the project stalled as ran into some delays locating the last few bits of information necessary to complete it. However, a few weeks ago a thread about the F7U Cutlass was posted. The whole time I was reading through it, I had this article in back of my head. (More on that at the end.) It was this thread gave me the final bit of motivation to complete the article.

Before I jump into it, a quick note on formatting. This article was originally written in a Word document that supports footnotes. WIX, however, does not. Therefore, the references have been converted to end notes.

Noha307 wrote:
Did ball turret gunners actually die from being crushed on landing?

As far as can be determined from the available evidence, with one possible exception, no ball turret gunners were crushed during emergency landings and the concept can be generally regarded as a myth.

The answer to this question has two parts: the origin of the popular conception of the story and the actual facts of the matter.

The story entered popular consciousness through a number of sources.

In 1945, a poet named Randall Jarrell published a five-line poem titled The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner that ends with the famous line: "When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose." The poem does not actually mention exactly how the protagonist is killed, but given the description of the aftermath it would not be unreasonable to assume that he was killed on landing – and many people likely did.

In 1985, the television show Amazing Stories aired an episode called "The Mission" in which a B-17 ball turret gunner is going to be killed as his turret is stuck and the plane will be forced to make a gear up landing. However, through a miraculous series of events, he survives.[1]

The most detailed version comes from a 1995 book by Andy Rooney titled My War. In it he describes being personally present when a damaged bomber with a trapped ball turret gunner is forced to belly land, killing the gunner. The plane is given as a B-17 and it is said to be returning from a mission to bomb Regensberg.[2] In a later book called; Sincerely, Andy Rooney; he clarifies that the incident happened in Bassingbourne, England, where the 91st Bomb Group was based.[3] The 91st bombed Regensburg on more than one occasion, but the description he provides in the book suggests that he is referring to Mission No. 84, which occurred on 17 August 1943.[4] The 91st Bomb Group was made up of four squadrons: the 322nd, 323rd, 324th, and 401st. According to their Daily Reports, the casualties of each squadron on that day are as follows:
  • 322nd: 37 MIA, 3 WIA[5]
  • 323rd: 30 MIA[6]
  • 324th: 10 MIA, 1 WIA[7]
  • 401st: 1 KIA, 20 MIA[8]

Any crewmen MIA, or missing in action, can be ignored as the airplane would have been lost before they were in a position to be killed on landing. Similarly, those wounded in action, or WIA, can be ignored for the obvious reason that they survived. KIA, or killed in action, would be the only category into which a crushed ball turret gunner would fall as there would have been no question as to the airman’s fate. Although multiple individuals from the group died as a result of the raid, only a single individual was confirmed at the time as being killed: Technical Sergeant Donald F. Robertson, onboard B-17F, 41-24639. As T/Sgt. Robertson was the radio operator, the story could not be referring to him. Interestingly, one ball turret gunner, S/Sgt. Rioux on B-17F, 41-24490, was "wounded [in the] leg when [the] ball turret door was shot off."[9]

It is worth noting that in the same volume Rooney suggests he eschews a facts based approach in favor of good storytelling, at one point telling the chief historian of the Center for Air Force History that he is "appalled at how frequently the historical facts of the event I am writing about concur with my memory of it" and joking that "[a] primary objective of the Center for Air Force History should be to correct this and bring history into line with my recollection of it."[10] While he goes on to claim that "[t]here are some mistakes in my book…the details of that story [of the ball turret gunner] are not among them", it can be inferred that the fact that the chief historian felt compelled to write Mr. Rooney is because he believed there was an inaccuracy in his account.[11]

The documentary WWII in HD: The Air War even takes the story one step further, by not only repeating the Andy Rooney account, but also playing audio that is strongly implied to be the actual radio communications of the crew attempting to save the ball turret gunner.[12] However, this is very likely a fabrication for two reasons. First, recordings of actual radio transmissions of World War II aircraft are exceedingly rare. To the best of this author’s knowledge, there are only two confirmed examples of this taking place.[13]

As a matter of fact, even the famous William Wyler documentary on the Memphis Belle required the crew members to recreate radio transmissions in a studio after the airplane had returned to the United States.[14]

Second, although it is not entirely clear, the conversation as depicted in the documentary sounds to be between crew members of the airplane itself and not between the pilot and the ground. Unless a member of the crew was somehow recording it himself, it would have required the pilot to transmit the radio communications to the ground. This would be an odd act for someone whose attention would be heavily focused on nursing a crippled aircraft to land.

In contrast to the popular narrative, a review of the existing scholarship reveals it is difficult to find any evidence to support the story of the crushed ball turret gunner.

During World War II, the only American aircraft with ventral ball turrets were the B-17, B-24, PB4Y-1 and B-32.[15] Of these, the B-32 saw only very limited combat in the Pacific and the PB4Y-1 was a maritime patrol bomber. As most stories of the incident involve bombers returning from a land bombing mission in Europe, both of these aircraft can be ruled out. This leaves the B-17 and B-24.

The ball turret used on B-17s is the Type A-2 and B-24s is the Type A-13.[16] Made of cast aluminum and weighing 1,290 pounds, it was a heavy and resilient piece of equipment.[17] While this strength did not prevent it from being flattened during a wheels up landing, it did often cause the B-17’s fuselage to buckle at a point above the ball turret. For this reason, the ball turrets on at least the B-17s could be jettisoned. Alternatively, the turret could be dropped to help shed weight from an airplane struggling to stay in the air. According to the B-17 Pilot’s Manual, this could be accomplished by two men, with only two tools, in 20 minutes.[18]

The main difference between the A-2 and the A-13 is that the former was fixed and the latter was retractable. This means that only the B-24 had a retractable ball turret. So any story that describes a B-17 being unable to retract its ball turret has either been misremembered or is false.

The Aircrewman’s Gunnery Manual produced by the U.S. Navy actually addresses the issue of Emergency retraction in the PB4Y-1. It states:

Aircrewman’s Gunnery Manual wrote:
Don’t worry about the possibility that the hydraulic retraction gear might get out of order in flight–if it does, you can still raise the turret by means of the plane’s bomb hoists. These hoists are two winch, cable, and pulley units mounted on either side of the turret position. Use them only in an emergency when the retracting mechanism doesn’t work.[19]


There is one confirmed case of a gunner being trapped in his turret and killed in the resulting crash, but it is much different, and far more unusual, than the way the story is usually conceived. Staff Sgt. Joseph Russo, a ball turret gunner on the B-17 serial number 42-231987, was killed on 31 December 1944, when another B-17 collided with his from below. Russo was not killed immediately, but the planes became stuck together and his turret was wedged in place. Although the pilot and copilot of the top airplane survived a crash landing in the odd, two plane contraption, Russo did not.[20] Note, however, this story did not involve the standard trope of a landing gear failure. Furthermore, the crew was captured by the Germans – meaning that any knowledge of the crash landing could not have been known among Allied forces until after the war.

Another incident may very well be the inspiration for Rooney’s account. After taking off for a mission to bomb Oldenburg, Germany on 8 April 1944, the crew of the B-17G Carolina Queen, serial number 42-97214, discovered that the electrical gear retraction mechanism had failed and they were forced to manually retract the landing gear. Upon returning to base, they were able to manually extend the left main landing gear, but the right was stuck. Unfortunately, the plane lacked the tools necessary to jettison the ball turret. After contacting the ground and informing them of the situation, an A-20 was sent aloft with the required tools. After failing on the first attempt, the tools were lowered to the B-17 on the second try. The ball turret was duly dropped and the B-17 made a successful belly landing.[21]

The story was picked up by the United Press and published in multiple newspapers across the United States on 14 April 1944. Although never mentioning the gunner himself, the story even includes a line stating that the plane "might be smashed to bits on its own ball turret".[22] It continued to be reprinted through the next three months – including at least one variation that described it in more sensational terms.[23]

A lot of the narrative fits. The operation to bring the tools up to the damaged B-17, or at least the initial communication of difficulty, would have necessarily generated a lot of radio communication between the pilot and the ground – as Rooney describes in his account. A failure of the electrical landing gear extension prevented the gear from being lowered – similar to Rooney’s (technically incorrect) description of a hydraulic failure causing the same problem. The "sensationalized" version describes a number of pilots gathering to watch – Rooney also mentions watching the event unfold in a crowd of ground and flight crews. Given that it was reported so widely, it is conceivable that Rooney read the story himself and then over time he conflated it with his own experiences.

There are also a number of other confirmed amazing stories involving ball turret gunners that may have contributed to the apparent veracity of the myth. In particular, on 3 January 1943 ball turret gunner S/Sgt. Alan Magee, of the B-17F, 41-24620, Snap! Crackle! Pop!, survived a fall from 20,000 feet without a parachute.[24] It may have been that the plurality of true stories lent a veneer of credence to Rooney’s account.

Lastly – and most importantly, please note that in contrast to the story of the crushed ball turret gunner, all of the above anecdotes have many verifiable elements – names, dates, airplane serial numbers, etc. – which have been widely known for many years.

In sum, unless some previously unknown and verifiable account comes to light, the only conclusion that can be supported by the facts is that there is no evidence to support the claim that a ball turret gunner was crushed on landing.

Special thanks to Jim Szpajcher for providing critical original documents and Dennis Stewart for pointing out the WWII in HD documentary.

Endnotes
  1. Steven Spielberg, "The Mission," Amazing Stories, November 3, 1985.
  2. David Mikkelson, "Wing and a Prayer," Snopes, October 2, 2015.
  3. Andy Rooney, Sincerely, Andy Rooney (New York: PublicAffairs, 1999), 111.
  4. "Database," 8th Air Force Historical Society, n.d.
  5. "Dailies of the 322rd Squadron[:] 1943," 91st Bomb Group, n.d.
  6. "Dailies of the 323rd Squadron[:] 1943," 91st Bomb Group, n.d.
  7. "324th Squadron Mission Reports," 91st Bomb Group, n.d.
  8. "Dailies of the 401st Squadron[:] 1943," 91st Bomb Group, n.d.
  9. 91st Bombardment Group (H), Operations Record Book, R.A.F. Form 541, August 17, 1943. This is a form listing the crew and sortie details for each aircraft in the 91st Bombardment Group, n.p. "Interrogation Form," August 17, 1943, National Archives. This is a form filled out by an unknown member of the crew summarizing various aspects of the mission. Theodore R. Parker, "91st Bombardment Group (H) Narrative History" (Eighth Air Force, 1st Bombardment Division, 1st Combat Bombardment Wing (H), August 1943), 00081049, Air Force Historical Research Agency, 51. This is a unit history and was transcribed by Ann Szpajcher. All three documents were provided via email by Jim Szpajcher, a historian associated with the 91st Bomb Group Memorial Association.

    Further research by Mr. Szpajcher confirms that an additional 37 men from the unit were killed in action on August 17th. However, all of these casualties occurred on aircraft that crashed or otherwise did not return to base.
  10. Andy Rooney, Sincerely, Andy Rooney (New York: PublicAffairs, 1999), 105.
  11. Andy Rooney, Sincerely, Andy Rooney (New York: PublicAffairs, 1999), 111. Unfortunately, the letter Mr. Rooney received is not reproduced in the book, only his reply. Therefore, it is not possible to know the full list of topics he was responding to. However, given the well-known nature of the ball turret gunner story, it seems to be a reasonable assumption that it was at least being alluded to.
  12. Sammy Jackson, "The Air War," WWII in HD (History Channel, 2010). The relevant section is available on YouTube.
  13. The first is the result of BBC reporter and sound recordist accompanying an Avro Lancaster crew on a bombing raid over Berlin on 3 September 1943. ("Bombing Berlin" (BBC, September 7, 2013). This reference is not the actual recording, but a report on the story of its production.)

    The second is a recording of an attack on the Japanese submarine I-52 by TBM Avengers from the USS Bogue on 23 and 24 June 1944 made for training purposes. ("Historic Naval Sound and Video," Historic Naval Ships Association, n.d.)
  14. Robert Morgan and Ron Powers, The Man Who Flew the Memphis Belle: Memoir of a WWII Bomber Pilot (New York, New York: New American Library, 2002), 245-246.
  15. The PB4Y-2 and PBM also featured ball turrets, but they were in the nose. The PB4Y-1 is essentially nothing more than a B-24 adopted for naval service. The PB4Y-2 is also based on the B-24, but has more significant modifications – including the elimination of the ventral ball turret.
  16. Handbook of Instructions with Parts Catalog[:] Lower Ball Turrets Types A-2B and A-13A, 1944, 1.
  17. "Sperry Lower Ball" (Training Department, Kingman Army Air Field, n.d.), 5.
  18. Pilot Training Manual for the Flying Fortress (Headquarters, AAF, Office of Flying Safety, 1944), 134-135.
  19. Aircrewman’s Gunnery Manual, n.d, T-116.
  20. Teresa K. Flatley, "Bizarre B-17 Collision Over the North Sea During World War II," HistoryNet, June 12, 2006.
  21. Michelle Deffinger, "Project 44: The Belly Landing," World War II History (blog), March 20, 2010.
  22. "Airmen Snag Tools on Fly To Land Ship," The Daily Oklahoman, April 14, 1944, 10; "Fortress Crew in England Execute Intricate Maneuver," Nebraska State Journal, April 14, 1944, 6.
  23. "Teamwork Saves 'Fort,'" The Racine Journal-Times, June 6, 1944, Extra edition; Peggy Rhodes, "Today’s American Heroes," Statesville Daily Record, May 17, 1944. Note that the article from the The Racine Journal-Times was included in an extra edition of the newspaper that covered the invasion of Normandy. This suggests that it may have just been included as filler.
  24. Hal Susskin, "20,000 Feet - Without a Chute: The Alan Magee Story," Hells Angels Newsletter, February 1996; "The Free-Fall of Sergeant Magee," Check-Six.com, n.d.

    A similar story of surviving a fall without an open parachute is that of B-17 navigator Arthur Frechette, who – although possessing a parachute – was knocked unconscious and only woke seconds before impacting a snowy mountainside. (John Fleischman, Black and White Airmen: Their True History (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2007), 140–142.) Examples from other countries include British tail gunner Nicholas Alkemade and Soviet navigator Ivan Chisov.


This should offer some insight into why I argued so strongly for verifiability in the F7U thread. The whole reason this story has persisted is because it was repeated time and again without anyone taking the time to check whether the facts behind it were true - something a verifiability requirement forces you to do. I am not unaware of the apparent paradox (or should I say, Catch-22) that, of course, this article uses many primary sources. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with using primary sources as they are not the intended target of such a standard. Instead, the fact their use is prohibited by Wikipedia is a means to an end and they are "collateral damage" as it were. Instead, the true focus is completely or poorly sourced claims. For if verifiability had been enforced at the time the narratives surrounding the F7U were forming - if people had insisted on those suggesting it was a bad airplane to back up their statements with evidence - its reputation would not need to be defended today. This is why we must hold to the standard of verifiability even when it makes the work of correcting the record more difficult. Because not doing so simply starts the problem all over again.

By the way, for anyone interested in more myths related to bombers, check out the blog post The Politics, Pickle Barrels, and Propaganda of the Norden Bombsight by Dan Hart at the Museum of Aviation about the Norden bombsight.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:49 am 
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I respected Rooney's early work, but by the time he wrote those books, he was getting up there in age, and more to the point was relishing his reputation as the grumpy old man of CBS (thanks to his opinion pieces on 60 Minutes).
He was believing his own press...And IMHO, relished his reputation and notoriety.
It would not surprise me in the least of he eschewed facts for a good story.

And, I concur with the statement on the rarity of voice recoding of radio calls in the war.
Remember, magnetic tape recorders were only developed in the '30s in Germany, and not commercially produced until post war.

(The above comments are based on my study of WWII media reporting and Broadcast technology history as part of Masters Degree studies. My thesis addressed both areas, though not those specific points).

Fun fact...the aircraft commander of the B-17 in the Amazing Stories episode was a pre-fame Kevin Costner.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:39 am 
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Good job! I love a properly-researched and referenced piece of work. It's an interesting read too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:24 am 
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While out with Aluminum Overcast, I’ve had to vets who were eye witnesses to events where the turret gunner was crushed. One pilot who didn’t have a mission but his btg filled in on another crew. Another was a fellow ball turret gunner whose friend was lost in that manner on the same mission he was on. Both vets were in person at the plane and told the story directly to us.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:01 am 
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I think this aptly illustrates the dilemma for historians: the official data versus human recollection. In the absence of substantiating information, we have to say it didn't happen so far as is known. Once something verifiable comes to hand, the personal recollection can be used as substantiating data, but human recollection alone is unreliable.

Unfortunately human recollection is subject to many outside influences over the course of time. Also there are a number of reasons why something might be recollected which didn't happen at all, or not in the way recollected.

So we need to record that thus far, there is no recorded instance of it happening.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:57 pm 
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While I’d agree on smaller details or colors of something, this gentleman who was very sharp, absolutely recalled the events.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:35 pm 
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mustangdriver wrote:
While I’d agree on smaller details or colors of something, this gentleman who was very sharp, absolutely recalled the events.


Absolutely recounted a story, which without corroboration, is just a story. Folks can be very persuasive, but an anecdote isn't a fact until proven thus.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:36 pm 
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Just think of all the 'no sh*t, this is a true story' stories we've heard up to 4th of 5th hand from vets. So many we now know are total BS (the M-1 rifle 'ping' being used to sucker Axis soldiers into standing up to be shot being a big one). But some folks will hold fast and double down on them.
Heck, just ask any WW2 Jeep owner about the "$50 Jeep in a crate" story. Hundreds of people will swear it happened to someone several times removed. But no, it never did. But try to get someone telling the story to understand it.

I have spent a lot of time researching (and collecting stuff from) war correspondents and their work since the 1990s. One thing I have found is that few of them allowed a good story from getting in the way of the facts. "If it bleeds, it leads" was nowhere more valid than from the correspondents in WW2.
This was especially true for the military correspondents from Yank, Stars and Stripes and military radio.
That is not to say that they had stuff up outright, but I know for sure that there were some embellishments put into print back then.
If you tell me nobody ever got crushed in a ball turret during landing, I'm more willing to accept the historical records of the units involved than I would from a dispatch (even more so from something written well into my own lifetime, after the war), for this reason.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:22 pm 
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So what documents would you look for to show exactly how someone was killed in the war? I’m not sold the details would be included outside of a phrase like “killed in landing”

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:21 pm 
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All this reminds me of something Dick Drain once told me. Dick was a veteran of the 99th and 390th Bomb Groups and one of the best researchers I've ever known.

Anyway, Dick used to go along to reunions with his database and answer his fellow veterans' questions about which plane they flew and when.

He told me this: "The older they get, the more clearly they remember the things that never happened".

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:40 pm 
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mustangdriver wrote:
So what documents would you look for to show exactly how someone was killed in the war? I’m not sold the details would be included outside of a phrase like “killed in landing”


Also, to add to this....'official' documents during the war are sometimes wrong or just off. Obviously not all, but for example, I have seen three different dates for the arrival of the 506th FG on Iwo Jima in various official documents, between the group, squadrons, and 7th AF, as well as what veterans told us.

With regard to the original post, it is a sad but interesting subject for sure, and one perhaps we will never know the true answer to.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:05 pm 
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mustangdriver wrote:
So what documents would you look for to show exactly how someone was killed in the war? I’m not sold the details would be included outside of a phrase like “killed in landing”


First step could be mishap reports, which include detail of each incident where an aircraft was lost or damaged: obviously an incident where single or no main gear failure was involved would preclude inclusion. The mishap report would detail individual injuries, crew positions etc.

Unfortunately it's easy to make a bland statement that such-and-such occurred but far more difficult to prove it didn't happen when you don't really have a starting point. It would be interesting to have at least one example to begin with and see how far it's possible to go in establishing a correct version of events.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:41 pm 
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mustangdriver wrote:
While out with Aluminum Overcast, I’ve had to vets who were eye witnesses to events where the turret gunner was crushed. One pilot who didn’t have a mission but his btg filled in on another crew. Another was a fellow ball turret gunner whose friend was lost in that manner on the same mission he was on. Both vets were in person at the plane and told the story directly to us.

Do you happen to remember either of their names, what unit they were with, when it occurred or any other details that would help narrow it down?

mustangdriver wrote:
So what documents would you look for to show exactly how someone was killed in the war? I’m not sold the details would be included outside of a phrase like “killed in landing”

The "Interrogation Form" that Mr. Szpacher sent to me - the one mentioned in the article - has a question that reads:
Interrogation Form wrote:
10. CASUALTIES: (Give name, position in A/C. Type of injury, and cause.)


However, as if to prove your point, the complete handwritten answer is:
Interrogation Form wrote:
T/Sgt. Donald F. Robertson Killed.

That's it. No mention of how he died or his injuries.

I asked Mr. Szpatcher if he had any additional details as to the type, cause or extent of T/Sgt. Robertson's injuries. Unfortunately, he did not. The only other potential source he could think of was to try to request his personnel file from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. However, Robertson's file was in the range of files affected by the 1973 fire, so it was likely destroyed.

One other option could be an obituary or notice of death in a newspaper. Although I wouldn't expect them to be very detailed, it might at least offer a bit of background information. I did find one for the above case, but it had only the bare minimum of information.

quemerford wrote:
In the absence of substantiating information, we have to say it didn't happen so far as is known.

Exactly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:51 pm 
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While I believe that Andy Rooney may not be the very best authoritative source about this subject, I would also say that the AAF was probably not in the business of advertising the method of death of ball turret gunners trapped inside during emergency landings. That may have caused a slight recruiting/retention problem....

I have a collectible grouping of a B-29 bombardier of the 1st Bomb Group (VH) who was KIA in an explosion over Japan in March 1945. His mother wrote letter after letter to the US Government looking for his remains. None of the reply letters told the truth about what happened, and stated that they were diligently making the effort to account for all remains. I read period documents about this aircraft and a related aircraft crash, which included documentation of a dead aircrew member propped up next to a barrel to collect donations for the anti-aircraft crew manning local guns. I doubt this made it into any official correspondence between family and the US Government. Back then, there were some things you just didn't discuss. Even in the voyeur-driven, electronic surveillance world we live in today, there is still some decorum (and there probably should be more).

My point is just because you didn't see it documented during WWII in finest facebook fashion for all to see, that does not mean ball turret gunners getting killed in such a manner did not happen.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:09 am 
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Forgotten Field wrote:
My point is just because you didn't see it documented during WWII in finest facebook fashion for all to see, that does not mean ball turret gunners getting killed in such a manner did not happen.


I don't think anyone is saying that it didn't happen; just that there is no verifiable evidence that it did. All we have is hearsay and recollections of unknown context and provenance.


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