P-51 with AeroProducts Prop

[EDowning]

Are there any flying today with this prop? If so, any pics to post?

[Neal Nurmi]

Do you mean the skinny prop from the P-51K or the more broad P-51H prop? There used to be a lot of the latter in use for racing at least, but I don't know much about the -K Aeroproducts.

[Scotty G]

Eric,

I know of at least one Mustang flying with an Aeroproducts prop - Dan Martin and his Ridge Runner. I have some cool pics, but I have to save them for publication in Warbird Digest. Stay tuned!

I can't recall off the top of my head, but Jimmy Leeward might be running one now on Cloud Dancer. He's run one in the past, but unsure if it's on there now.

Hope this helps.

[C170BDan]

Lew Shaw's Mustang has that prop. Based here in Dallas. This is the former "Thunderbird" Mustang.

[retroaviation]

Eric, contact Nelson or Ashley Ezell regarding quesitons about Lewis' prop on his Mustang. They can fill you in on that info.

Great shot of Thunderbird, Dan!

Gary

[Jim Beasley]

I haven't seen a -K prop; has anyone? Would love to see one with that prop on it

[Neal Nurmi]

OK you modern Mustang historians -- there are three P-51s with props visible in this recent thread

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... c1aa938503

I think the first two are both -H Aeroproducts. Am I right so far? The question is on Dan's Ridge Runner III -- what is the round-tip prop? I know Dan briefly tried P-63 blades -- could that be what these are?

We have been working on a book project for a while about a particular racing P-51, and I need to learn a bit more about Mustang propeller usage in racing. This has got me curious about Mustang props in general...

[SparrowV12]

Can I answer Neal???

[Jim Beasley]

not until you finish my engines, Sparrow.

1) paddle blade Ham Standard, 2) Aeroproducts H model prop, 3) cuff blade ham standard. Neal am I right?

[Neal Nurmi]

Guys guys -- this is not a quiz!! This is a subject that I'm seriously ignorant about! (So what else is new?) Jim -- to me the first two look the same, and I don't think the one on Dan's is a regular Ham Standard. Mike -- please do answer, and when you do I have a bunch more questions that maybe you can help with.

For one, what was the advantage of the -H prop -- lighter? more area? I know the motor guys in those days, Hovey, Z, etc used to run huge revs -- I've read up tp 3850+ rpms for Zeuschel. So would a lighter prop be good in such an application? How prevalent was the problem of leaking seals at high revs with these Aeroproducts props? I know it used to happen to Crocker all the time, and Jimmy too. Like I said -- I'm really ignorant about much of this stuff. Any reliable information would be very much appreciated...

[Trey Carroll]

Lew Shaw's Mustang has that prop. Based here in Dallas. This is the former "Thunderbird" Mustang.

Cool pic, you gonna be there over the fourt of July? Frank is the greatest guy.

[Jim Beasley]

Neal -- the first is a ham standard paddle blade, the successor prop to the cuff blade ham standard -- the cuffs were removed because at high g and speed it acted like a rudder and allegedly caused a snap roll. Unsure the math and physics behind the H model aero products prop. The one on Martin's is one that came with Bald Eagle and now Sparrow has it. The third is the standard cuff blade ham standard prop. Unsure about the leaks -- we had good luck with ours.

[Neal Nurmi]

Thanks Jim -- Boy from that angle that sure doesn't look like a regular cuffed prop on Dan's airplane. Is there much difference in flying characteristics or performance in normal use between a cuffed and the later non-cuffed Ham Standards? I assume they are different blades -- not the same blade with or without cuffs? How can I tell visually in a photo whether a prop is a paddle blade Ham Standard or an -H Aeroproducts? They tend to look the same to me. What should I be looking for?

These days, for a stocker or for air show work like you and Shipley do is the general preference for a cuffed or paddle blade? Which is more available?

Thanks for any answers...

By the way, I loved that old photo of "the nappy haired kid" in the cockpit of 51JB -- did you really help talk your Dad into buying it? I knew Tom Summers pretty well through his IF1 racing -- he sure did love flying that Mustang!

Neal

[Jim Beasley]

Neal -- I like the look of the cuff blade much better than the paddle blade. The idea of the cuffs was to have a higher angle of incidence via the cuff to push more air into the intake, giving, in effect, a free boost or air pressure from the blade. The paddle blade has a slightly higher angle of incidence but not as great. They are different blades -- look at the tips, for example, and you can see. If you check out "darn Yankee" (if this says "darn" it's because I'm not allowed to type "da.n") it has a cuff blade prop with the cuffs removed. That makes an easy comparison between the two blades. Cuffs are more rare. There was a new production run of paddle blades a little while ago which increased their presence. A "real" cuff blade is pretty costly now.

Hard to say whether one feels different. In theory the cuff should create more power.

As a 10 year old I did persuade Dad to buy a mustang. I was a P-51 freak ever since I saw Jack Shaver's 3 mustangs in Cape May in 1975. My Dad could have had one for $60k then .... and in 1978 we were flying across the country for his business and I begged him to stop in Harlingen to check out the CAF and hopefully see a P-51. Fortunately we found 51JB. She's a full-time member of the family now.

Last edited by Jim Beasley on Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[Jim Beasley]

btw Dan Martin's plane has the aeroproducts prop. Shangri-La has the cuff. Paul 1 has the paddle