Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:33 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 855 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 57  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Idaho
Some really great Duck and Goose shots.
Quite a few I'd never seen before and I've been looking at Grummans for years.
Do you have anything on the Widgeon ?

_________________
Avoid that sinking feeling -- Check the hull plugs on your pre-flight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 833
GRUMMAN XSBF-1 1936

1
Image

2
Image

3
Image

GRUMMAN XF2F-1 1933


1
Image

2
Image

3
Image

4
Image

5
Image


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 833
Mr Widgeon, I' not sure but if i do i'll post.....i'll look though what i already have done, could be some here...I am far from a expert on these...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Idaho
armyjunk2 wrote:
Mr Widgeon, I' not sure but if i do i'll post.....i'll look though what i already have done, could be some here...I am far from a expert on these...


It looks like the Goose but it's smaller and the tail is more square in shape. Both are taildraggers.
A good rule of thumb is, if the wingtips and tail feathers are rounded it's a Goose.
If they are more squared off, it's a Widgeon.
Thanks for what you've already posted, there's some really good stuff there.

_________________
Avoid that sinking feeling -- Check the hull plugs on your pre-flight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 833
GRUMMAN F3F

1
Image

2
Image

3
Image

4
Image

5
Image

6
Image

7
Image

8
Image

9
Image


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:27 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:39 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Somerset,UK
Crackin photo's!! Think your thread here will be very long & VERY popular!!
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Idaho
[quote="armyjunk2"]GRUMMAN F3F

Great Stuff !
I've only seen about half of these F3F shots before.
Don't stop now, keep 'em coming.

_________________
Avoid that sinking feeling -- Check the hull plugs on your pre-flight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 833
I'm glad you all like them........


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:16 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6880
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
armyjunk2 wrote:
I'm glad you all like them........


:prayer:

And a question. It seems clear that Grumman was particularly wedded to the idea of the mockup, presumably pre-production. I can see that made sense to convince the Navy in the locust years of the 30s, but in the 40s, even before Pearl Harbor?

And what use where they? I know the reasons normally advanced, but a lot of it looks more like a company demonstration model to impress customers (see the quality of work, and finish of the pieces) rather than a 'see it all fits' kind of tool.

They do look very cool though. :D

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:38 pm 
Offline
Been here a long time
Been here a long time

Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am
Posts: 11275
JDK wrote:
And a question. It seems clear that Grumman was particularly wedded to the idea of the mockup, presumably pre-production. I can see that made sense to convince the Navy in the locust years of the 30s, but in the 40s, even before Pearl Harbor?

And what use where they? I know the reasons normally advanced, but a lot of it looks more like a company demonstration model to impress customers (see the quality of work, and finish of the pieces) rather than a 'see it all fits' kind of tool.
They were used to verify the fit of everything from hydraulic tubing and fuel lines to control cable and control rod lengths. You would also have sub-element mockups for things like cockpit furnishings. This was back in the day when aircraft shapes were lofted like boats and the drawings were created on vellums with pencil. Not as accurate as 3D modeling now, so everything had to be checked before you made up fixtures for manufacturing. A lot of tubing and such was developed right on the mockup and then copied for production.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:55 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6880
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
Thanks, BDK, that was my understanding of the usual (quoted) need.

But if you look at the Duck and (I think) F3F mockups, they're more like 'wooden' versions to look like the aircraft (see the tail, stringers etc.) rather than wooden versions of the metal structure, which would be of the use you've pointed out.

Image

Your case makes a good deal of sense for the TBM interior mockup, but even here with the stencils, paper copies of the instruments? There's a PR element there as much as fulfilling a technical need, IMHO.

Image

Back on the Duck and F3F - the tail has been added for purely aesthetic reasons - it's just a sheet of board - no practical use at all, and likewise the guys sitting in them have as much to do with 'lookee here' as seeing if the ergonomics were viable.

The explanation adds up; but is it really the whole reason? There's easier ways of figuring that stuff than employing a team of top quality woodworkers to do in wood what you are going to do in metal, shortly.

Just curious...

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:18 pm 
Offline
Pvt. Joker
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: Location: Location!
I saw part of a documentary on the Orion crew module on tee vee recently. An engineer was working with a Shuttle pilot on different window plugs, etc. so perhaps in the age of SolidWorks there is something to be said for doing it in the real world.

Of course, the process was filmed for tee vee, so there is something to be said a little PR.

The first time I saw one of these mockup pictures here this has been on my mind. Interesting discussion.

_________________
Image
Commemorative Air Force
Experimental Aircraft Association
Warbirds of America

What are you waiting for? Join us!

Best way to contact me- email my last name @gmail.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:55 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Thank you very much armyjunk, all these pics are excellent. Well done mate. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:15 pm
Posts: 951
Maybe the men in the plane were doing it for amusement purposes ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 833
F14 wooden MOCKUP 1968


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 855 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 57  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 81 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group