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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Thanks for checking out the photos and giving your opinions! We're definitely no experts about WWII aircraft so this is VERY helpful! The plane is off the Maui coast... I think the naval station was called PUUNENE on Maui.

I'm checking this link for the downed aircraft:

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/USN/LLJul45.htm


Thanks for the help and corrections! :)

Sean


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Hey Sean, I dont recall reading about the depth where the plane is located. You mentioned its good for diving on so exactly how deep is it? Also, have you made any other interesting discoveries off the islands there in Hawaii? We would love to hear about any other planes you have made dives to or any other wreckage for that matter.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Hi Pat,

We have a few other aircraft here off Maui. They have an "F6F" engine and wing very shallow (about 30 feet), a Sherman Tank and a Landing Craft (both together), AnotherSherman Tank off a beach called Big Beach which I haven't dove yet... Also in about 190 feet of water they have a 4 engine bomber PB4y which I have yet to dive...

We're going to look for another plane wreck soon based upon some info my friend Brad has about it's location..

Here's a video of the PB4Y from someone on youtube... it's deep and a rebreather/tech dive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97uOrtxXOP8&feature=fvsr

The "Hell" Diver we found is in under 60 feet of water... sadly my buddy asked me not to tell it's location but I know the cat will be out of the bag very soon :)

Here's some info I gathered from the Avation Archaeology site about the SB2c series losses off Maui:


http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/USN/LLMar44.htm

3/1/1944 SB2C-1 00107 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
3/7/1944 SB2C-1C 18322 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS B.R. BARCLAY S
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 00323 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 18343 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
7/19/1944 SB2C-3 18994 VB-20 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
8/8/1944 SB2C-1C 00278 CASU-4 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LT J.H. BURNETTE S
8/31/1944 SB2C-1C 00338 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS JAMES B. SKINNER S
9/4/1944 SB2C-1C 00362 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LTJG AUTHUR N. AVERY S
6/12/1944 SB2C-3 18728 VB-13 USS FRANKLIN (CV-13) PUUNENE ECENPAC LT R.J. WEBER S
1/17/1945 SB2C-4 19731 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS C.W. KING S
10/2/1944 SB2C-3 19182 CASU-4 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
12/1/1944 SB2C-4 19746 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LTJG BILLY JESS SHEARON D
12/16/1944 SB2C-4 19926 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS WALTER W. GORMAN S
12/16/1944 SB2C-4 19936 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS CARMAN J. JACOBSON M
2/16/1945 SBD-3 06588 VJ-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
2/16/1945 SBD-3 06537 VJ-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC


Can someone point me to any good historical reference to find out more about these crashes or pilots?

When I get some more photos of the wreck or take some video I'll definitely post it here! You guys are really helpful!

Thanks,

Sean

P.S. the forum renamed the H3LL Diver to the Heck Diver :)

(edited to correct 2nd plane off Maui, it's a tank sorry)


Last edited by scubasean on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Sean,
Its an SB2C-1C. Period.
Not a -1, not a -1A, not a -3, not a -4 and not a -5.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:44 pm 
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SB2C-1 wrote:
Sean,
Its an SB2C-1C. Period.
Not a -1, not a -1A, not a -3, not a -4 and not a -5.

Can you share your rationale with those less intimately familiar with the type?
Regards,

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Wow if it really is an SB2C-1, then there was only a single plane lost off Maui which was an SB2C-1


3/1/1944 SB2C-1 00107 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC


I'd definitely want to know what the difference... I have a side view PDF showing all the SB2C's from 1c - 5e... I can't really see too much difference..

Do you think the weapons in the wings are cannons (I think so) which would be pretty telling on the type...

Maybe you can give me a list of areas on the plane I should photograph to be definitely sure of the model...

Here's a link I found that had some good info on the different models:

http://www.vectorsite.net/avsbd.html

Sean


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:06 am 
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scubasean wrote:
Wow if it really is an SB2C-1, then there was only a single plane lost off Maui which was an SB2C-1


3/1/1944 SB2C-1 00107 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC


I'd definitely want to know what the difference... I have a side view PDF showing all the SB2C's from 1c - 5e... I can't really see too much difference..

Do you think the weapons in the wings are cannons (I think so) which would be pretty telling on the type...

Maybe you can give me a list of areas on the plane I should photograph to be definitely sure of the model...

Here's a link I found that had some good info on the different models:

http://www.vectorsite.net/avsbd.html

Sean

Sean,
Its a -1C for 2 very distinc reasons. 3 blade prop, and yes, the wings have the cannon. The -1 had 2 guns per side. The -3 up had 4 blades(200hp more)
As I said before, the losses database shows 27 -1C A/C in the HI area.
The -1A only had 3 losses(VMSB332), all 3 accounted for.
If you think Puunene is the spot that its located at then that narrows it to 6 Buno's. Maui is not listed as a location for a -1C.
If your going back to dive on the wreck PM me and I can tell you what to look for and where on the plane for positive ID.

As for that site vectorsite.net it's got some bad info. 1 statement says "200 SB2C-1's never saw combat at stayed stateside for training..." is incorrect. VB-17 left the states in Sept 1943 on the USS Bunker Hill with them. They did see combat.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:36 am 
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scubasean wrote:
Hi Pat,

We have a few other aircraft here off Maui. They have an "F6F" engine and wing very shallow (about 30 feet), a Sherman Tank and a Landing Craft (both together), AnotherSherman Tank off a beach called Big Beach which I haven't dove yet... Also in about 190 feet of water they have a 4 engine bomber PB4y which I have yet to dive...

We're going to look for another plane wreck soon based upon some info my friend Brad has about it's location..

Here's a video of the PB4Y from someone on youtube... it's deep and a rebreather/tech dive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97uOrtxXOP8&feature=fvsr

The "heck" Diver we found is in under 60 feet of water... sadly my buddy asked me not to tell it's location but I know the cat will be out of the bag very soon :)

Here's some info I gathered from the Avation Archaeology site about the SB2c series losses off Maui:


http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/USN/LLMar44.htm

3/1/1944 SB2C-1 00107 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
3/7/1944 SB2C-1C 18322 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS B.R. BARCLAY S
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 00323 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 18343 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
7/19/1944 SB2C-3 18994 VB-20 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
8/8/1944 SB2C-1C 00278 CASU-4 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LT J.H. BURNETTE S
8/31/1944 SB2C-1C 00338 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS JAMES B. SKINNER S
9/4/1944 SB2C-1C 00362 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LTJG AUTHUR N. AVERY S
6/12/1944 SB2C-3 18728 VB-13 USS FRANKLIN (CV-13) PUUNENE ECENPAC LT R.J. WEBER S
1/17/1945 SB2C-4 19731 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS C.W. KING S
10/2/1944 SB2C-3 19182 CASU-4 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
12/1/1944 SB2C-4 19746 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LTJG BILLY JESS SHEARON D
12/16/1944 SB2C-4 19926 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS WALTER W. GORMAN S
12/16/1944 SB2C-4 19936 VB-83 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS CARMAN J. JACOBSON M
2/16/1945 SBD-3 06588 VJ-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
2/16/1945 SBD-3 06537 VJ-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC


Can someone point me to any good historical reference to find out more about these crashes or pilots?

When I get some more photos of the wreck or take some video I'll definitely post it here! You guys are really helpful!

Thanks,

Sean

P.S. the forum renamed the H3LL Diver to the Heck Diver :)

(edited to correct 2nd plane off Maui, it's a tank sorry)

Very interesting Sean. Whats the deal w/ the Sherman tanks and the landing craft. Just dumped there? How far down does the sun's light penetrate? You have an awesome hobby out there. Its got to be fun finding stuff never seen before.

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Last edited by Pat Carry on Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:43 am 
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Pat Carry wrote:
Very interesting Sean. Whats the deal w/ the Sherman tanks and the landing craft. Just dumped there?


Dumped after the West loch explosion?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:55 am 
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That PB4Y video is pretty neat.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Django wrote:
That PB4Y video is pretty neat.

YES! The one tire looks like it could be put right on another aircraft. Whats the story with the airplane; ditched, pushed over the side?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:29 pm 
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Don't forget that Lahina on Maui was the deep water anchorage of our PACFLEET before December 7. The bad guys had two plans in place if they found our fleet in either location...and they WANTED to find them at Lahina as it was deep water and anything sunk there would have pretty much stayed there forever.

Sean references "Big Beach" which is the common local name for one of the two Makena Beaches on the very southwest point of the Island near Wailea. "Little Beach" is its neighbor just past the bluff which separates them...which is the famous nude beach.

The coastline between Kihei (Key-hay) and Wailea is now mega resort-ville. The oceanside walkway from the Grand Wailea toward Kihei is still studded with wartime machinegun emplacements and pill boxes and all sorts of war refuse that has dredged itself up. (artfully placed along the path.) I recall seeing many lengths of tank treads. This piece of coastline was a wartime training area for amphibious operations so wouldn't be unusual to find amphibs and cargo lost there during practice assaults...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 am 
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Hi Guys,

I'm still waiting to dive the Dive Bomber again! It's been a long wait! I'll try to shoot some video and more photos when my buddy gets us out there again.

From my understanding of the tank and landing craft, the navy was practicing landing maneuvers when they sunk... The landing craft lies maybe 75 yard or so away from the tank... There are some MG ammo rounds and perhaps some tank shells encrusted on the coral (looks like a tank round). I really don't know the full story and if I did I'd bet it's incorrect! :D

As for the 4 engine bomber, I have no idea about the story.. It would be very interesting to find out. My friend tells me there's another wreck (another plane perhaps) lying out there... I'm so eager to get out there I have pestered my friend to death... so I hope he calls me soon!

I subscribed to the thread, so my apologies for not getting back sooner!

Sean


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Sean, is the aforementioned landing craft an LST?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Pat, I need to find my photos and I will post them here... or a link... I dove it a few times...

Check out this info I found on the Dive Bomber... I'm wondering what you guys think... Don't want to step on any toes.. just an attempt at identifying the model:

The squadron based at Maui was the VB-8

The aircraft listed for the squadron on this link is the sb2c-1

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraf ... -codes.asp


Check out this photo of the plane. Interesting it's metal color.. The wreck seems metal color too...

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraf ... ver-01.jpg

Looking at the plane mods, I think it has to be the sb2c-1c or later since it has 2 20mm guns in the wings. the
earlier modes had 4 MG's in the wings...

Also, our plane has 3 props:

http://www.bbscuba.com/images/gallery/b ... 589594.jpg

On the aircraft specs, only the SB2C-1 and SB2c-2 has 3 props:

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraf ... ldiver.asp


based on the info of 3 props and the 2 20mm guns in the wings, I'd say it's a SB2C-1C...

Here's a list of the possible aircraft lost:

3/1/1944 SB2C-1 00107 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
3/7/1944 SB2C-1C 18322 VB-8 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS B.R. BARCLAY S
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 00323 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
5/15/1944 SB2C-1C 18343 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
7/19/1944 SB2C-3 18994 VB-20 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC
8/8/1944 SB2C-1C 00278 CASU-4 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LT J.H. BURNETTE S
8/31/1944 SB2C-1C 00338 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC ENS JAMES B. SKINNER S
9/4/1944 SB2C-1C 00362 VB-3 PUUNENE HAWAII ECENPAC LTJG AUTHUR N. AVERY S

Let me know what you think,

Thanks,

Sean


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