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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:10 am 
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Had not heard of this before, From Scotsman newspaper:
A recovery team in Greenland is attempting to evacuate and repatriate three servicemen who are thought to have been entombed in a glacier since their plane crashed in WWII. The Coastguard has commissioned a private squad in an attempt to find and finally remove the J2F-4 Grumman Duck biplane from the ice.
Nancy Pritcahrd Morgan, 87, from Maryland, USA, recalls the day 68 years ago when her mother telephoned to say her brother had been lost. “When I heard those words, my heart just sank,” she said in an interview with The Scotsman. He had been listed as missing two weeks earlier when the plane he was travelling in lost radio contact with the base.

The new mission, codenamed “Duck Hunt”, is utilising an arsenal of ground-penetrating radar and advanced ice-melting equipment which can pinpoint buried metal objects. The task is a race against time, however, to find the soldiers before their close relatives die or the glacier moves out to sea.
“Any branch of service wants to recover their fallen members, if they can,” said John Long, a Coastguard master chief petty officer and head of the mission. “It’s the right thing to do,” he added in the Scotsman report.
The 15-strong team has identified six sites as promising but progress has been slow due to harsh weather conditions. The original report of the 1942 accident determined that the crash took place within three-square miles and around 2,300ft above KogeBay on the country’s southeast coast.
The Grumman Duck would be a valuable artefact if recovered as only 32 were ever made. The three lost American men were stationed at a training camp in Greenland during the war.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:24 am 
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Probably

Bu No. 1640 to USCG as V1640. Crashed in Greenland during rescue of crew from downed B-17 Nov 29, 1942 or (I have seen 20th Decemeber 1942 incorrectly quoted)


see: http://www.jacksjoint.com/crash_in_greenland.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:08 am 
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Interesting article, glad the recovery is happening, of the crewmen, that is. Their Statement that it is rare because only 32 of them were built is a little misleading. Only 32 of that EXACT model, over 500 Ducks of varied models were built. Emphasis should be on the crew recovery, I have mixed feelings about the aircraft recovery, it IS their grave...appropriate display and memorial for the recovered bits will be in order should they recover the plane.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:53 am 
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Is there anything left of the B-17F 42-5088 that they were rescuing the crew from?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:00 am 
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Don't know, but here is a great link to the story
http://www.check-six.com/Coast_Guard/No ... _Crash.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:39 am 
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Fishing wrote:
Had not heard of this before, .



The NY Times published a pretty substantial article about this J2F on September 21, 2010.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/scien ... nland.html


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:31 pm 
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A picture from the night before the crash:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/0 ... AND-9.html

The B-17 crew that the Duck crew were trying to rescue:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/0 ... AND-7.html

It would be helpful if someone can copy and paste the NY Times article and pictures here so they are not lost.

Regards,

Art S.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:33 pm 
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wow a thread to watch for sure!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:50 pm 
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Are any members of that B-17 crew still with us?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:10 am 
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Here you, from the NYT,

By MONIQUE MUGNIER
Published: September 20, 2010 :

KOGE BAY, Greenland — It was December 1942 and the height of World War II when she received news of her brother. “Nancy,” her mother said calmly over the phone. “John’s been lost.”

“When I heard those words, my heart just sank,” said Nancy Pritchard Morgan, 87, of Annapolis, Md. Two weeks earlier, on Nov. 29, her brother and two other Coast Guard aviators had been listed as missing after their plane lost radio contact — and presumably crashed — during a storm off the southeast coast of Greenland.

Now, 68 years later, the Coast Guard has commissioned a private recovery team to try to locate, excavate and repatriate the three men entombed in a J2F-4 Grumman Duck biplane in a glacier here. The team set out last month with an arsenal of top-of-the-line technology: ground-penetrating radar, which can detect metallic objects close to the surface; advanced ice-melting equipment, which can pinpoint buried objects as it dissolves the ice around them; and a camera that can take pictures from inside deep hollows of ice.

The team also installed two GPS devices that will track the movement of the glacier in question. The goal is to find the servicemen before their relatives are dead and the ice where they are buried moves out to sea.

“Any branch of service wants to recover their fallen members, if they can,” said John Long, a Coast Guard master chief petty officer and the head of the “Duck Hunt” recovery mission. “It’s the right thing to do,” he said.

The 15-member team, including three from the Coast Guard and a reporter, had expected to spend no more than five days investigating six sites that had been identified as promising. But relentless rain, harsh winds and low visibility kept helicopters grounded, leaving the team stuck on the ice and unable to explore all the sites. Eleven days passed before everyone was able to return to the airport in Kulusuk.

The recovery effort began three years ago, when Chief Long began piecing together historic clues. The original 1943 accident report included a hand-drawn map from Col. Bernt Balchen, the American polar aviator who ran a training base in Greenland during the war. Chief Long determined that the crash had taken place within a three-square-mile area about 2,300 feet above Koge Bay.

In 2008, Mr. Long ordered an aerial survey of the region using Essex ground-penetrating radar, which transmitted electromagnetic waves from a P-3 Orion airplane flying 3,500 feet above the glacier. A large metallic object like the J2F-4 Grumman Duck — which would be a valuable artifact to recover, since only 32 of them were made — would show up as a white blotch. Of the blotches on the Essex map, three coincided with the coordinates on Colonel Balchen’s map, and one had the shape of a biplane.

To move the project forward, the Coast Guard hired a private contractor, Luciano Sapienza, chief executive of North South Polar Recoveries of Jersey City. In 1992, he was part of the expedition that recovered the “Glacier Girl”, a P-38 Lightning airplane downed over Greenland in 1942. He and his team set out for Koge Bay late last month.

Kate McKinley, 34, a geophysicist from Charleston, S.C., was in charge of the hand-held ground-penetrating radar kit. She used a product called the Rough Terrain Antenna from a Swedish company, Mala Geoscience. Holding a data screen in front of her, she anchored the radar to her back and dragged a 12-foot sensor, resembling a gigantic rat tail, along the ice.

With most ground-penetrating radar, “we would have to set up a grid and go from point A to B, physically marking on the ice where we picked up a reading,” Ms. McKinley said. With the Mala, exact coordinates are tracked via GPS. “It is like driving a boat over the surface of the ice with a fish finder,” Ms. McKinley said.

The radar detects anything metallic, as well as bedrock and crevasses, within the first few hundred feet. The readout shows a cross-section of the ground on a black and white screen with hyperbola-shaped anomalies. When Ms. McKinley found an anomaly that looked promising, she marked the spot for drilling. Altogether, she was able to mark 10 spots before the rain made the ice too slushy.

Weegee Smith, 57, a specialist in building custom field instruments, moved in next, operating a powerful ice-melter. The contraption siphoned water from a well Mr. Smith had dug and heated it to 180 degrees. Mr. Smith sprayed the hot water on the target area, digging a shaft 130 feet deep.

Unfortunately, “the ice melted with no resistance the whole way down,” Mr. Smith said. Resistance, he said, would have indicated “that we hit something and it was time to take a look.”

On the third day of drilling, he did feel some resistance, so it was time to bring in the subsurface camera. Designed by Alberto Behar, 42, an electrical engineer at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the camera has a fish-eye lens surrounded by 27 LEDs that could illuminate the shaft Mr. Smith had made and transmit real-time images. Any indication of the J2F-4’s metal, oil or paint chips would prompt Mr. Smith to drill more holes.

While all this was going on, two other teams set out to find the other candidate sites on the glacier, carefully navigating sinkholes, snow bridges and eight-foot crevasses. They marked the secondary locations and installed two permanent GPS units, which track the movement and speed of the glacier.

“One of the biggest challenges to this mission was not knowing how fast the glacier is moving or in which direction,” Dr. Behar said. His GPS units send signals via satellite every four hours to a remote receiver in Los Angeles. Eventually, the data will give Mr. Sapienza’s team a better idea of how far the plane may have traveled since the crash.

After four days of drilling in freezing rain and wind, the scientists saw no indication at the primary site that the anomalies detected by radar were anything but large crevasses. Effectively, the team was able to rule out this location and focus on other sites.

Time is running out for the Coast Guard, which has already spent $579,000 on the Grumman Duck recovery effort, including $314,000 for the recent trip. With warmer temperatures, scientists say, the glacier and plane are advancing more quickly toward the ocean than previously estimated.

“This is the warmest summer Greenland has seen in 150 years,” Ms. McKinley said.

Mr. Sapienza said: “We are disappointed we couldn’t do more, but we learned a great deal and the Coast Guard is on track for the next steps. These men made the ultimate sacrifice, and it’s our duty to bring them home.”

Mrs. Morgan took the news in stride as the team headed home. She has fond memories of her older brother, who introduced her to the man who became her husband. “It’s wonderful to know that John hasn’t been forgotten,” she said. “We can’t give up — not yet.”

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:10 pm 
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certainly 32 of that duck variant, not the type entirely!!!! the parodox...... war grave?? rare bird?? bring the crew members home for final rest, or decide if final rest is at the crash. i understand where the relatives stand, but this is a dicey 1 for the navy to judge with their past record, but "newly enlightened attitude".

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Coast Guard C-130J 2005 Elizabeth City left TTN earlier today on an expadition to locate and possibly recover the Duck and the missing servicemen. I believe it was Nancy Pritchard Morgan that I met while I was at the plane. I didn't ask if she was going nor did I watch it take off.

Regards,

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Holedigger wrote:
I have mixed feelings about the aircraft recovery, it IS their grave...appropriate display and memorial for the recovered bits will be in order should they recover the plane.

Is it still their grave once their remains are removed? We have plenty of warbirds flying now where former crew members had met their demise.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:47 am 
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ArtS wrote:
Coast Guard C-130J 2005 Elizabeth City left TTN earlier today on an expadition to locate and possibly recover the Duck and the missing servicemen. I believe it was Nancy Pritchard Morgan that I met while I was at the plane. I didn't ask if she was going nor did I watch it take off.

Regards,

Art S.


It was Nancy Pritchard Morgan you met. She of course is the sister of the Duck pilot, LT John Pritchard. She was there to see the C-130J off.


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