Deep Dive Flying Fortress Recovery ?

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:29 pm

HPDCapt
Once you figure out if this is your dad's airplane, let me know and I can put you in touch with the dive team. They have some great photos of it underwater.

kevin

HPDCapt · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:14 pm

Tulsa,
This is not my fathers aircraft. The one that was dived on was ditched in November 1944. My father ditched on June 30, 1944.
It was mentioned that there are several aircraft in the vicinity of Vis. My father said they had Vis in sight when the fuel ran out.
Someone may have dived on his B-17, I don't know. I was also looking for more information on the mission he ditched on and any reports or information on his particular aircraft loss.
If you or anyone else needs more information I will give what I know. Or just point me where to look.

L. Thompson · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:35 pm

HPDCapt,

Do you have any photos of your Dad's B-17F 42-5944? Did it have any nose art? I haven't seen any of -5944, but I do have a nice one of the 419th's sister-ship, B-17F-35-VE, 42-5949. My dad was also in the 419th but completed 50 missions in March 1944. Send me your E-mail by PM.

Lowell Thompson
Kellogg, Idaho

HPDCapt · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Lowell,
The only picture I have is when my father was landing on his 50th mission in a B-17G. The tail number is blocked in the picture.
He was in the 419th Squadron, 301st Group.
My email will be coming in a pm shortly.
Thanks

John Dupre · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:48 pm

I was just reading that the the coast of Albania on the Adriatic was virtually unexplored in terms of wrecks and archeology since the Communists put the entire coast line off limits. Since the fall of the Communist regime there have been searches but they concentrate on really ancient Roman era wrecks and only note and pass by anything later. Several WW2 era shipwrecks have been indentified and there are a number of aircraft as well. I imagine the Croatian coast is in much the same condition. That particular B-17 looks pretty fragile to me. When you can see holes corroded through the skin of an aircraft you can be sure the extant of the damage is several times larger than the actual hole.

zbocek · **Joined:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:23 am **Posts:** 2

HPDCapt

I'm divemember of the team which found Tulsamerican. I have your father's plane on the list of ditched aircraft near the Vis Island. Our team is interested about further research at this area, so there is a chance to find 42-5944.

I have some information about, but first do you have a MACR?

Zeljko

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:20 am

HPDCapt-

Zeljko is the man when it comes to finding aircraft off of Vis. If you want to pursue the project, get in touch with him here via WIX. His team is fantastic, and is a great group of folks as well.

kevin

HPDCapt · **Posted:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:54 pm

Zeljko,
I would love to have any information you could pass along. Pictures would be great as they would give me an idea of what condition my fathers aircraft is in. I will send you my email if you need it. What is a MACR, the term is not familiar to me.

Kevin,
Many thanks to you also. I already know more now than I did a week ago and I'm still getting more information.

agent86 · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 3:57 am **Posts:** 926

tulsaboy wrote:

Granted I am not a salvage expert, but I would bet that you could carefully salvage it in pieces. There are plenty of loose parts that could be brought out of the fuselage. The wings could be demated and brought up with large slings; the fuselage could be separated into its component parts and lifted, again with large slings. After all of that was accomplished, you would still have to pursue an incredibly aggressive corrosion control process. To do it right, you would have to have tanks big enough to submerge all of the large components that you brought up, and then you would have to monitor those tanks and change out the solutions regularly. After you did all of that, you would have the heavily corroded remnants of a B-17. But it would be a combat vet, and there is no substitute for that!

kevin

Why bother? yes its a combat vet but its also corroded junk. also how much money do you think it would cost to do this? I realize that you are just pointing out a way that recovery could be done,and yes it could be done.I just dont think it'll happen.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:43 am

Quote:

Sounds like the co-pilot is still at his station.

I wondered why there was no video of the cockpit, despite the fact that the copilot's roof window is missing. If she's a war grave, then she should definitely be left alone (although it would be nice if any crew remains were recovered and returned to the families for proper burial.)

From a purely economic and logistical standpoint, I'd have to say this one just isn't worth recovering. You'd have to expend enough cash and effort to restore several B-17s, and as has been mentioned, you'd still end up with a pile of corroded scrap. If she was a one-of-a-kind I'd say maybe, but as warbirds go B-17s aren't all that rare, and the resources necessary to recover and preserve this one (I think it's obvious she's too far gone to be a viable restoration candidate) would be better used elsewhere.

SN

zbocek · **Joined:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:23 am **Posts:** 2

HPDCapt-

please contact me at zb17ghost@yahoo.com

Thx

Zeljko

kmiles · **Posted:** Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:47 pm

At 70 meters deep, only the most experienced dive teams would be able to even attempt a recovery. Bottom time at 70 meters (even with re-breathers) would be very limited on each dive. Each dive would be a decompression dive, so would require multiple hours on the accent after very little time on the bottom. That is why the divers in the videos have multiple tanks strapped on their sides. I would think that any dis-assembly by human divers would have to be very limited at those depths. It is not impossible but something that would take a lot of time, and a lot of money. B-17's are not real rare (with 12 or so flying, and a lot more static), but they do not come up for sale often, so in the future this may be the only way to get one. As more of the aircraft are sold out of private ownership into museum ownership, the chance of them being sold is decreased.

HPDCapt · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:35 pm

I thought I would let everyone know that I have received alot of information about my fathers ditching. This has been mainly due to WIXers and I cannot thank you enough.
I hope to learn even more as time goes on.

DryMartini · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:51 pm

kmiles wrote:

It is not impossible but something that would take a lot of time, and a lot of money. B-17's are not real rare (with 12 or so flying, and a lot more static), but they do not come up for sale often, so in the future this may be the only way to get one. As more of the aircraft are sold out of private ownership into museum ownership, the chance of them being sold is decreased.

If you have the money, we have the B-17!

whistlingdeath77 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:34 pm

if i had the money i would buy one and then take all veterans up for free rides. After all, their the ones that flew and fought in it first in extreme conditions of battle

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