New build FW-190D???

CDF · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:38 am

Adam Kline wrote:

I like the motor mount design. Pretty ingenious. Looks like it doubles as a heat shield.

Krupp of Essen metalwork you mean

. Damm nice looking A/C look forward to seeing it the sky :wink:

redvanner · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:37 am

Adam Kline wrote:

I like the motor mount design. Pretty ingenious. Looks like it doubles as a heat shield.

AFAIK this very massive engine mount was developed due to the weight difference between the Allison and the Jumo. The V-1710 has a dry weight of 1,395 lb (633.5 kg), compared to a dry weight of 2,072 lb (940 kg) for the Jumo 213 (stated by Mr. Wiki, lol). That is nearly 1/3 difference! So it was necessary to put some serious weight to the engine compartement. Using the enginemount as balancing item was a good idea IMHO. I do not know why no FW-190 D flew with the V-1710 (There were 2 intended to use the Allison-solution, the ex-Blair one, and one for Flugwerk, though I am not sure if the second one was ever built/finished. The 3rd -D ( the one with Eric Vormezeele in Belgium) was always intended using a Jumo AFAIK.

Michael

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3322

redvanner wrote:

I do not know why no FW-190 D flew with the V-1710 (There were 2 intended to use the Allison-solution, the ex-Blair one, and one for Flugwerk, though I am not sure if the second one was ever built/finished. The 3rd -D ( the one with Eric Vormezeele in Belgium) was always intended using a Jumo AFAIK.

From memory, wasn't there some unpleasantness between the engine builder and the FAA?

Liza · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:19 am

Here are a couple shots of Jerry Yagen's Dora:

AG pilot · **Joined:** Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:13 am **Posts:** 532

Very handsome.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:30 am

My heart be still.... certainly looks buttoned up and ready to go.

Noha307 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:36 am

DoraNineFan wrote:

DaveM2 wrote:

New build -ex Blair-at Meiers for Jumo 213 installation.

I think Matthias said he would give us a new thread topic to follow this rebuild. I don't believe it's been shipped to Meiers yet. It will very exciting to see a Dora come to life.

Where did the 213s come from? I can't imagine there were that many laying around. They aren't new build, are they? :shock:

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1455

TriangleP wrote:

I hope we will see this Dora fly with a Jumo engine soon...

I would be pretty excited to see it fly with the Allison. A Jumo would be mind boggling!

Liza · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:57 pm

TriangleP wrote:

Very nice pics Liza, on this thread and the Jerry Yagen Collection thread too, thanks for posting them. Dark hanger with bright windows isn't easy to get a good exposure...Jerry Yagen is very determined to get a representative collection that includes one of each! An observor has to be impressed with his irrepressible determination. I hope we will see this Dora fly with a Jumo engine soon...

Thank you. From what I know on this Dora is she's not ready to fly, but they will be working on her.

redvanner · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:09 pm

C VEICH wrote:

TriangleP wrote:

I hope we will see this Dora fly with a Jumo engine soon...

I would be pretty excited to see it fly with the Allison. A Jumo would be mind boggling!

Well, in fact it must not be a Jumo 213 neccessarily. It also could (might) be a DB 603. It would be a D-14 version. Though only 2 were built (AFAIK), it would be a very reasonable version. (Ta 152 C had the DB as well, but I believe the wings were different to the Fw 190 D series.) And it happens to be that MeierMotors just have one of the DB 603 around. (It is purely speculation by me, as I do not know for which project the 603 might be, nor do I know who owns this engine.) But it seems to be in excellent condition, at least what can be told by the pics. (MeierMotors FB site, scroll down to February 10.)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/MeierMoto ... 9400376090

Michael

Zac Yates · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:39 pm

She looks gorgeous! Thanks so much for sharing the pics with us, I'm so pleased to see the aircraft so far along.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:08 pm

That Dora Is stunning.WOW!

redvanner · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:28 pm

TriangleP wrote:

Good stuff Michael, didn't know D-14s existed. A DB603 would fit under the hood. A D-9 used two MG13's mounted on the upper nose, Yagens version seems to have this. Did the D-14 have these too?
Found this book which covers this variant http://www.japo.eu/preview.php?prod=2

@TriangleP: The D-9 version was used to create the D-14. Only difference were: DB 603 (instead of Jumo 213), a different oiltank, and a different cowling (DB had the scoop for charger on the left side, Jumo on the right side). Everything else remained unchanged, the MG 131´s above the engine remained unchanged as well. AFAIK even the attachpoints for the enginemount were the same, as the Jumo 213 and the DB 603 were meant to be interchangeable when proceeding to the Ta 152. (Einheitstriebwerk - standardised powerunit ?)

Michael

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2536

TriangleP wrote:

Also, Jumos and DBs were supercharged, the Allison V-1710s were turbocharged.

While Allisons were turbocharged on the P-38, they were supercharged on various other aircraft, P-39, P-40, P-63, P-82, new build Yak-3,-9, etc..
http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention ... llison.pdf

In the 190D installation, this Allison (and perhaps all) uses a downdraft carburetor.

marine air · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:13 pm

I believe the deal was to find a suitable engine to build up some D models. The Fw-190 kits were originally $600k USD. So add a couple hundred thousand bucks more for a Dora and you would have the coolest fighter at any airshow. The problem is, while they did a masterful job at Flug Werk, there were lingering details to be worked out. Some that come to mind on the "A's" were gear issues, electrical harness issues, prop reliability issues, cooling issues with the engine and it's coolers. Also paint and avionics weren't provided with the kit and this had to be figured out by each customer.
Take the cost of a Dora kit, plus the cost to get it shipped, assembled, licensed,test flights, and paint. Now add $1.5 million to upgrade it to a JUMO 213 with cowlings, engine mount, etc. Plus the cost to reverse engineer the FLug werk Dora designed for an Allison, back to the original equipment.
Anyone care to guess what the all up costs are to have it finished and flying?

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New build FW-190D???

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