NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:45 pm
Ok ya'll, here's the deal,
The C-119 that is the last remaining piece of the Pate Museum is destined to be moved 16 miles from where it currently sits, to the "new" Granbury Veterans Museum where it is slated for renovation. The problem lies in the fact that up until I was brought onboard yesterday, the project had reached a stand still. The guys that have been working on it are a very small group of veterans that are up in years. It is going from a non-profit museum to a non-profit museum, so I'm sure you can see the funding/manpower problem inherent in that. I personally have a history with the Pate, and while I am in the military and have a varied range of mechanical and electrical experience, I am not well versed in aviation. I was asked to help because the powers that be know I will do everything I can. If you live in the DFW area, or are close enough to want to make the drive, I am going to start organizing weekend work trips starting sometime in mid-January. I know as far as Texas goes, these are our coldest months, but this project can't be abandoned now, cause I have a feeling thats where it will end. Texas Department of transportation has offered us a permit to tow it down the highway to where its going on its own wheels without a trailer.... however.... all 6 tires are not only flat, but cracked and in some places shredded. I got ahold of some guys in Alaska who still fly one of these babies, and they graciously offered to lend us wheels and tires, but we have to cover the shipping there and back. I should have mentioned this next very important fact earlier... I am not asking for nor will I accept your money. The Granbury Veterans Museum has a spot on their site for donations if thats what you want to do, and it will be appreciated. What I'm looking for is a like-minded group of people willing to volunteer their time and/or resources (i.e. tools, equipment, etc.) to help tackle this project. I know times are tough for everyone, and I'm not expecting a giant group of people to come rolling in and save the day. More so than anything else, I grew up loving this museum, and this plane, and I now have the chance to work with and touch the very thing I idolized as a child, and I'm hoping some of you will be as excited as I am to have the chance to hands-on work on this piece of history too. Feel free to drop me a line as a message or reply to this post. Step one will probably just be getting everyone involved out there one weekend in January to spit ball ideas about how we can make this work. Thanks for reading this novel, and I know I've been a member for less than 24 hours, but you guys have been great. Thanks a million
The C-119 that is the last remaining piece of the Pate Museum is destined to be moved 16 miles from where it currently sits, to the "new" Granbury Veterans Museum where it is slated for renovation. The problem lies in the fact that up until I was brought onboard yesterday, the project had reached a stand still. The guys that have been working on it are a very small group of veterans that are up in years. It is going from a non-profit museum to a non-profit museum, so I'm sure you can see the funding/manpower problem inherent in that. I personally have a history with the Pate, and while I am in the military and have a varied range of mechanical and electrical experience, I am not well versed in aviation. I was asked to help because the powers that be know I will do everything I can. If you live in the DFW area, or are close enough to want to make the drive, I am going to start organizing weekend work trips starting sometime in mid-January. I know as far as Texas goes, these are our coldest months, but this project can't be abandoned now, cause I have a feeling thats where it will end. Texas Department of transportation has offered us a permit to tow it down the highway to where its going on its own wheels without a trailer.... however.... all 6 tires are not only flat, but cracked and in some places shredded. I got ahold of some guys in Alaska who still fly one of these babies, and they graciously offered to lend us wheels and tires, but we have to cover the shipping there and back. I should have mentioned this next very important fact earlier... I am not asking for nor will I accept your money. The Granbury Veterans Museum has a spot on their site for donations if thats what you want to do, and it will be appreciated. What I'm looking for is a like-minded group of people willing to volunteer their time and/or resources (i.e. tools, equipment, etc.) to help tackle this project. I know times are tough for everyone, and I'm not expecting a giant group of people to come rolling in and save the day. More so than anything else, I grew up loving this museum, and this plane, and I now have the chance to work with and touch the very thing I idolized as a child, and I'm hoping some of you will be as excited as I am to have the chance to hands-on work on this piece of history too. Feel free to drop me a line as a message or reply to this post. Step one will probably just be getting everyone involved out there one weekend in January to spit ball ideas about how we can make this work. Thanks for reading this novel, and I know I've been a member for less than 24 hours, but you guys have been great. Thanks a million
Last edited by Bandit_214 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:13 am
Will, check with the Aviation Collection at UT Arlington and see if they have the T.O.s for the C119. I'd copy the pages dealing with changing the wheels, mains and nose. See what kind of axle jack you'll need and where those jack points are on the gear.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:22 am
Didn't even think of UTA. Thanks for the tip! 
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:15 am
Sorry I'm not closer, but here's a few tips.
1. Pull the wheels and tires. Even if they are shredded on the outside, the core casing might be in useable shape. 16 miles is a long way to pull a set of tires, so be prepared for them to fall apart, e.g. have spares for the trip and have a truck tire place on call ready to change them out if they need it. I have the C119 parts and E&M manual somewhere but it will take some looking. Get the tire sizes and post them here. You might be able to get a set of junker cores from Desser or somebody that will fit and get your trip done. There are probably useable tires available somehwere closer than Alaska. Grease the wheel bearings while you have them off. Even if the races and cones on the bearings are rusted together, break them free and grease them with heavy grease.
2. From experience, make sure you have good ground between where it sits and whatever hardball is near. It's heavy and might dig itself into the dust when you move it from present place. You might need to get a load of gravel or road millings (preferred) and pack them to get it moved. You only need the width of the tires, so you shouldn't need much.
3. Remember you have oleos there, and you might want to check for any air pressure, if they will take air pressure, or if they are moveable. Jacking should give you an idea.
4. Look at your hard points VERY CAREFULLY. Wherever you attach a piece of tow apparatus might not be sound. Make sure it is good before you pull it off and need to manufacture something.
5. Inspect everything on the airplane that is moveable. Things tend to fall off from aircraft that sit and corrode.
6. No matter what anybody tells you, drive the whole route even if you aren't responsible. I did this for the Culpepper VA TBM because it went by where I live and I suggested to them the optimum route to take. Even though I drove the route and have experience doing this stuff, I missed the one point where they had a small issue. It was solved on the spot, but this is critical before you move the aircraft.
7. Find the people who move house trailers. They are experts at moving wide things down the road, and are probably the ones who should move this. Just remember that they move house trailers, not airplanes, and you need to work with them carefully on a move like this.
8. Make a written plan. Don't leave details to memory. What you write down might help out the next person who has to do this.
9. Take your time. Jobs like this can't be rushed. All the above aside, you might want to consider disassembling it and moving it. It will take more time and equipment, but it will be a lot safer for the airplane during travel.
Good luck and hope it goes well for you. Keep us posted.
1. Pull the wheels and tires. Even if they are shredded on the outside, the core casing might be in useable shape. 16 miles is a long way to pull a set of tires, so be prepared for them to fall apart, e.g. have spares for the trip and have a truck tire place on call ready to change them out if they need it. I have the C119 parts and E&M manual somewhere but it will take some looking. Get the tire sizes and post them here. You might be able to get a set of junker cores from Desser or somebody that will fit and get your trip done. There are probably useable tires available somehwere closer than Alaska. Grease the wheel bearings while you have them off. Even if the races and cones on the bearings are rusted together, break them free and grease them with heavy grease.
2. From experience, make sure you have good ground between where it sits and whatever hardball is near. It's heavy and might dig itself into the dust when you move it from present place. You might need to get a load of gravel or road millings (preferred) and pack them to get it moved. You only need the width of the tires, so you shouldn't need much.
3. Remember you have oleos there, and you might want to check for any air pressure, if they will take air pressure, or if they are moveable. Jacking should give you an idea.
4. Look at your hard points VERY CAREFULLY. Wherever you attach a piece of tow apparatus might not be sound. Make sure it is good before you pull it off and need to manufacture something.
5. Inspect everything on the airplane that is moveable. Things tend to fall off from aircraft that sit and corrode.
6. No matter what anybody tells you, drive the whole route even if you aren't responsible. I did this for the Culpepper VA TBM because it went by where I live and I suggested to them the optimum route to take. Even though I drove the route and have experience doing this stuff, I missed the one point where they had a small issue. It was solved on the spot, but this is critical before you move the aircraft.
7. Find the people who move house trailers. They are experts at moving wide things down the road, and are probably the ones who should move this. Just remember that they move house trailers, not airplanes, and you need to work with them carefully on a move like this.
8. Make a written plan. Don't leave details to memory. What you write down might help out the next person who has to do this.
9. Take your time. Jobs like this can't be rushed. All the above aside, you might want to consider disassembling it and moving it. It will take more time and equipment, but it will be a lot safer for the airplane during travel.
Good luck and hope it goes well for you. Keep us posted.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:23 am
You will probably have to have the local electric company help with raising (moving) overhead wires on your route. Hopefully you can get this done gratis.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:37 am
When we remove both vertical stabilizers it will clear the power lines with only having to have the cable lines removed and the cable company already said they'd do it. The local Sheriff is onboard for road closures, and Texas Department of Transportation said go for it. Literally our only REAL BIG problem, and by REAL BIG I mean 40,000 lbs of it, is getting her on the highway and rolling.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:42 am
According to a museum employee I talked to years ago, the A.F. crew flew her into the strip at the bottom of the hill. Then they TAXIED to her final resting place, shut down, and walked away ! She may still have fuel onboard.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:02 pm
Another option for wheels may be to fabricated a 2-axle/4 wheel dolly for each gear.
Nothing fancy, just six mobile home axles/wheel assemblies, cut and weld to size, and put under a home made cradle. Each dolly should support 12,000+ lbs.
These parts are usually dirt cheap, and the bias ply tires are pretty darn tough.
Good luck, and post pics when you move it.
Nothing fancy, just six mobile home axles/wheel assemblies, cut and weld to size, and put under a home made cradle. Each dolly should support 12,000+ lbs.
These parts are usually dirt cheap, and the bias ply tires are pretty darn tough.
Good luck, and post pics when you move it.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:48 pm
If bandit had bothered to put a email on his profile I could have sent him the C-119 manuals,
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:39 pm
I did contemplate the dolly idea. And a VERY big thank you to Matt for those manuals
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:25 am
Have you considered contacting the Public Affairs Office of the Texas Air National Guard C-130 unit? You might find some experienced volunteers, tire shop, tow bar, tug, who knows what kind of help depending on how you approach it.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:51 pm
Hi, I was an AC-119K Stinger Gunner in Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia in 1971-1972. I am currently a member of the AC-119 Gunship Association. We have a number of members in the DFW area. I am trying to get the word out to them via the Western Association Coordinator for our group. Please keep me informed as to how the project is moving along and I will try to keep our guys informed.
Thank you,
Everett Sprous
our web site
http://www.ac-119gunships.com/welcome.htm
Thank you,
Everett Sprous
our web site
http://www.ac-119gunships.com/welcome.htm
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:06 pm
Try calling these guys to get some some ideas for the move. They are in the professional airplane moving business but I'm sure they could provide some help over the phone for free. http://www.allcoastaircraftrecovery.com
They moved a C-119 from Milwaukee to New York plus a lot of other aircraft.
http://www.allcoastaircraftrecovery.com ... t-20-2006/
Bruce Byrd
Houston, TX
18th SOS
They moved a C-119 from Milwaukee to New York plus a lot of other aircraft.
http://www.allcoastaircraftrecovery.com ... t-20-2006/
Bruce Byrd
Houston, TX
18th SOS
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:36 pm
You might try Tracey Potter at Hagerstown Aircraft, Hagerstown, MD. They ferried a Hawkins&Powers C-119 to Hagerstown. They might have some wheels and knowledge to help out.
Re: NEED HELP WITH PATE MUSEUM C-119 - CRESSON, TX
Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:43 pm
I will be going back to Greybull in the next couple of weeks. There are still two or three C-119's there, but I can't remember if they are on wheels and tires....Will take a peek at them if you'd like...Is there any tire/wheel combinations that could interchange with what you need?
Gary
Gary