Warbird Information Exchange

The last time this topic came up (when they didn't get a shuittle) that's what I suggested.
Make the MoF the world's #1 air transport archive/museum/collection.

Boeing also owns Douglas...so the two greatest American airline builders are already in town.
They already have a great collection...and yes, a HUGE part of thet would be the Comet....as significant as the 747 (perhaps?).
Yes, they can keep the fighters (which they got in one lump deal...collecting the easy way...no messy restorations).
But they should build on their core strength and focus on doing one thing well. Since they already have a great airliner collection, they should build on it.
(The Science Museum in the UK has a Connie and Boeing 247, but they aren't on regular public display. Sadly, they didn't save any of their large between the war airliners, AW Argosys, Shorts flying boats, DH Albatrosses, etc.).

PS. I'd like them to get a 707 in airline configuration...maybe buy the "Pan Am" TV series set as a start, then pick up Travolta's when he's done or better yet some 320 that faces an uncertain future in the third world. Then get the Short flying boat up from Oakland, and if possible, getthe Lockheed Orion from the Swiss (or build a replica to go along with their Boeing 40 model).

Don't buy any more WWII stuff...if Seattle visitors wantto see warbirds let them fo to the three other Museums in town that specialize in that.
And got get any more retired military jets, there are plenty of those out there as well, don't take up valuable indoor space with them.

If you want to make a name for yourself, do one thing that no one else is doing and do it well.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

If they had actually won a space flown Shuttle...let's say Endeavour, the frenzy and excitement surrounding it would have generated the money easily. Look at cash strapped LA. They've already raised the funds for the transfer and are halfway to raising the money for the permanent building to house the Shuttle (the temp building is going up now). Once the Shuttle is at the museum, it has the potential to draw massive amounts of people...and $$...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

I'm glad LA is doing so well in finding money.
But remember, LA and it's metro area is several times larger than Seattle...so there is no guarentee that Seattle would have the same success in fund raising.
Bill Gates can only give so much...

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

John, Thank you for NOT mentioning 'coffee boy' that "3rpo43km cpoer0[8 56 0mc-9i20238u rc87hjdr 32439!"

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

The thread is getting away from the topic. I'm going there this weekend so i will see what i can find out. Pretty hard to believe they would let an aircraft like that sit outside. And at Boeing field of all places. I have always thought that the way they had this plane tucked away all those years was a bit odd. No, more than a bit odd. I would like to see more attention paid to this aircraft and i can't believe that Boeing is not taking more of an interest in the situation. It Does have the Boss's name on it after all.

Well, as a former manager at the MoF, and just one of a family full of people who have worked there (including Hacker before his Air Force life), none of you are understanding how the place works.

One, it's not a Boeing museum. Boeing has donated land and money, but it's not "A" or "The" Boeing Museum. When it started in the early 1960's, it had nothing to do with Boeing...and for many years I can remember the (much smaller) collection being at the Seattle Center annex after the Worlds Fair. It has always been a private organization. So while you may think that Boeing would take issue with it...it's not Boeing's museum, and it's not Boeing's B-17.

Two, the MoF is not looked at, registered, or operated as a 'musuem'. It is registered with the state as essentially an 'amusement park' (no, I'm not kidding) and at times it is operated as such. They don't do the things the same way that an aviation museum such as the EAA or Chino, or whatever, would operate. The overall approach is just 'different'. The administrators who work there (and the thing that left the worst taste in my mouth when I left) are not 'airplane people'...they're 'museum people'. Aviation just happens to be the 'medium' they work in. Not to say that there aren't 'airplane people' there...it's just the people in charge are running a 'museum' and plug airplanes into the gaps. The whole idea is to appeal to 'everyone' without specializing on one thing in particular...and as such they can't target any 'specific' benefactors. Instead, they just go for whomever they can find with the biggest wallet at the time.

The reason they bought out the Champlin collection is because they finally had enough people complain that there weren't enough 'warbirds' on display. They felt that the Corsair they pulled out of Lake Washington was 'representative enough'. In fact, when I got into a discussion with one of the Vice Presidents about it, her exact comment to me was "Oh, we don't like war planes". But in the end, they followed the money because they were LOSING attendance. It's kind of a 'squeaky wheel' mentality.

As for the airliners and the 'big planes' outside...it's not so much a matter of wanting to build something, it's more where to put it. There's no room, The B-29, Connie, and B-17 were in the old Plant 2 (Boeing being generous enough to let them park them inside for YEARS)...but when the building was demolished, they had no other place to go. I know ten years ago there was a plan to put the B-17 inside as part of a new entrance, but the benefactor who was going to pay for it plastered himself and his T-28 into the side of a mountain...so that seven-figure check evaporated.

They got stars in their eyes with the Space Shuttle thing, and specifically hired the local female astronaut as the new boss...and all the new boss cared about was 'space stuff', so everything else, including warbirds and airliners took a back seat. Eventually, she was asked to 'step down' and after the MoF failed to get a Shuttle everyone just kind of went "well...now what?"

So the latest I hear is that they are going to purchase some of those big portable tent hangars to put over the airliners out in the lot across the street...a temporary fix until they can get the 'next phase' of the museum in place to put all the big planes indoors.

Not complaining, not criticizing...it's just what it is. Once you come to grips with what it's NOT, you don't lose sleep over the airplanes outside anymore...because it's not where their focus is.

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

Thanks for the inside information. If they don't have room for an expansion then what do they intend to do with the large aircraft? If they have room "across the street for tent hangars", isn't that room enough for an expansion? Those big planes are parked someplace?

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

If they care so little for the B-17, maybe they should just sell it to someone who will put it back in the air, as Bob Richardson intended ! That will garner the additional funds they need for further expansion.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

Speedy,
Great explanation of how the museum 'works'. For those who aren't seeing in their minds eye the space and location issues please GOOGLE Earth Boeing Field, besides 'the Great Gallery' across the street where the big iron is parked most of what you see to the West including the big black building are all on Boeing property. The black building is the Developmental Center and while originally built to work on the 2707 SST, a lot of really SHHHH stuff has and continues to go on inside (during the B-2 program there was the biggest friggin' autoclave you ever saw in there to build B-2 wing sections, a KENWORTH pulling a 50 ft flatbed parked in front of it looked like an HO railroad scenery model in front of a 6 inch drain tile ).
I would imagine that the 'rubber rooms' will come from KPAE after Boeing finishes finishing the early 787 production issues aircraft. Currently only the CONCORDE has any sort of climate control system installed (and that only because BA insisted on it, they still own it and it's on loan), everything else is 'on its own' as far as keeping rain out of the interiors as it's very expensive to constantly monitor that stuff, yes doors are shut but they are designed to seal tight with 8 psi pushing against the interior and there are so many tiny places where water can get in.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

A bit of history for you non-NW people.
AS mentioned above, The museum used to be at the foot of the Space needle...back when it was The Pacific Northwest Historic Aviation Foundation.
They had the N-156 (F-5) and a few other planes...including the B&W replica. I remember going in there circa 1974 and they were selling surplus Boeing desk models...9 inch Topping 707s and 720s with Boeing company markings. I didn't buy one because it was too expensive at $12 or something. Yes, I'm still kicking myself. (I did finally get a KC-135 version on ebay).


Of course you're right, but it is the de facto Boeing museum. The Red Barn, archives and prototypes make it certainly Boeing-centric. Which I don't mind in the least.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

Which is why a DC-3 is the center piece display???

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Who do you think owns the mortal remains of Douglas now? Hint, it's not Lockheed.

Seriously, Ive always thoughtthe Boeing 80 was the inside airliner star display.
And don't forget most of the 737, the B&W, and Boeing 40 replica.
Then leave the atrium and turn left, and you're in the original Boeing factory woth a couple of more replica 40 fuselages.

All that vs. a DC-3...I think Boeing wins.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

I helped screw that 737 together and saw it a few times later in it's life, and taught DOUGLAS 8,9,& 10 for a few years so you're preaching to the choir, it's just funny on a different level to hear visitors ponder out loud about why a DC-3 is the centerpiece in what they believe is the 'Boeings museum' most compare that to having a SHELBY GT 500 on display in the lobby of GM's headquarters, and you can't explain it to the average guy, too many hooks and turns in the narrative.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

As I was reading this thread....that thought came to my mind. Might as well cut to the chase.......was her view they don't like warbirds because they're built for killing? If so, I wonder if that could be a widely held view out there in the NW? I could see why the WWII planes may have taken a back seat to the shuttle....something built for exploration and not killing. Sorry...call me suspicious on this one.

CJ,
They're 'museum' people who just happen to work for a museum that displays airplanes not Rembrandts.
When Howie the drunk Lovering who founded the museum, and his cronies started it, they wanted nothing but 'Golden Age' stuff and the spectacular Great Gallery filled up with homebuilts and Rogolo hang gliders, but the few folks who did attend asked 'so where are the military airplanes?' Kind of like the last promoter for AIR FAIR @ KPAE who didn't invite any military stuff and had a ramp with a 172 in one corner, and a couple of CHEROKEES in the other and lots of very savvy and p.o.ed attendees who demanded their money back as they walked across the barren ramp, got in their cars and went elsewhere for the day.
The museum had to grudgingly give in and get 'a few' military types including a wooden mockup for the FA-18 in plywood (passing on the sole surviving F-20 to go with the N-156 prototype) that they assembled and put on the floor as a kids 'climb on' with a slide and old car stereos and other junk stuck in the 'cockpits'.
After working Photo for FLIGHT FEST @ KBFI for the original promoter, the museum flexed some (unmentionable) part of their physique and muscled it away from the promoter. We, as photo were told that we were specifically NOT ALLOWED on the ramp and they wanted lots of 'crowd' pictures and not so many 'airplane' photos (it's a friggin' airshow), we also got a Mother Superior style chewing out (and good morning to you too, thanks for asking) by an individual I'll identify as Cindy Upthe----(your guess) before we even started. So those of us who were the veterans had a 35 second meeting outside and went out to fulfill our assigned task, by holding our cameras @ waist level and blindly snapping nothing but peoples backs and butts I think I shot about 15 36 exposure rolls, turned in our film rolls at the end of the day on Saturday and didn't bother with going back Sunday. In fact it left such a sour taste in my mouth that I didn't go back for almost 16 years, and have only been back twice since.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-