Warbird Information Exchange

Really nice photos you posted Mark.Thanks a bunch BTW.

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Hang The Expense

Does a P40E have formation lights on the side of the cockpit. Whereas a P40e-1 does not.

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Desoto

A document that I have states the following, any comments on the accuracy

From P-40E in Australia Part 2: The P40E/E-1/N-1 Comparison Ver2
Sources: Curtiss Wright Factory Representative Report, 13/04/43,
P40N Belly Tanks 01/10/43 RAAF HQ Memo; own research records (Gordon R
Birkett 1999-2003) Revised 2005

P40E-1 aircraft had the provisions for identification lights. The first 800 P40E-1s,
41-24776 to 41-36353 (ET100-999) had the British type recognition lights. This
consisted of one upper and one lower light and Formation lights, forward of the
cockpit, on the fuselage sides. The remainder, 41-36354 to 41-36953 (EV100-
699) had USAAF type recognition lights of one upper and three lower lights.
USAAF P40Es 40-358, 40-382 to 41-13599 had no lights, as didn’t the first 400
P40N-1s.

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Chris Mellor

Well you learn something everyday. The only side note to that however is the AWM aeroplane 41-36084 A29-133 a P40E-1 has no formation lights on the side of the fuselage. Any ideas?

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Desoto

Here's another nice photo. source SDASM archives


P-40E of the 8th Fighter Squadron "Black Sheep" of the 49th FG

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Ahhhh.......Ash, you have uncovered the AWM's conspiracy. Now the media will be hounding you, heads will roll....hold on for a wild ride.

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"If that's a goddamn 'Jug' in front of me, you sure as hell better wiggle your wings." 80FS/8FG Cape Gloucester, December 1943. And the entire 41st Fighter Squadron rocked their wings.

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR P-38 PARTS

I seem to recall back years ago that the skins were replaced when it was restored so thats a possibility.

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Hang The Expense

Tom,
I actually have the original skins off the aircraft. I also have shots prior to its restoration no formation lights are visible. I wonder if the provision in which Chris has supporting documents are pertaining to wiring looms etc without the actual light installation being in place. I don't think I can recall ever seeing an E-1 with the lights installed.
Cheers,
Ash.

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Desoto

I have no personal knowledge on the subject, just remembered that I had a document penned by Gordon R
Birkett that covered it.

from
http://www.tainanbooks.com/creators/gordon.html

GORDON R. BIRKETT

Gordon took up Aviation research after a lifetime of token interest, in a determination to get the facts straight on the RAAF and USAAF deployments to the Pacific theatre, with particular focus on the early 1942 period. He has provided specific details on aircraft and pilots to specialist authors throughout the years, including William Bartsch, Bob Alford, Damian Waters, Peter Gross, Michael Claringbould and Peter Boer.

Gordon is a founding member of ADF-Serials.com.au, and has been employed since 2001 as their research co-ordinator in WW2 aircraft. Currently the editor of the telegraph E-news of ADF-Serials.com.au, he is also a member of the Queensland Air Museum, and a research contributor in assisting pro-bona, authors, websites and the Australian War Memorial who regularly request his assistance in researching WW2 operations and wrecks.

Gordon 'retired' early, but this gave him more time to avidly pursue further interests in aviation. His current focus is trying to compile data per all RAAF Spitfires and P-40 Kittyhawks, after having successfully completed such data on RAAF Hudsons, Vengeances and Wirraways for ADF -Serials.com. Gordon's contribution to the history of RAAF P-40Es in 'EAGLES of the SOUTHERN SKY', in conjunction with research by collaborator 'Buzz' Bushby, has been instrumental in presenting definitive presentations of the history and markings of RAAF No. 75 Squadron per their engagement with the Tainan Kokutai in New Guinea.

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Chris Mellor

Well Chris I would certainly not dispute the research of Gordy or Buzz. But it's interesting none the less. As I said in my last post I have the original skins of 133 and the three dimensional proof does seem to dispute the documents.
Cheers,
Ash.

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Desoto

Nice Reference Rick65

however, doesn't the recent discovery of HSB or ET 574 support Ash's remarks about 133?

If I am correct, the desert P-40 falls within the range that should have the side lights forward of the Cockpit? but the images clearly show none.


SD

Gents

I'll throw it out there a mistake was made about the formation lights.......simple rule of thumb is no formation light/ P-40E-1 (its one of the ways ET574 was identified.......for those who followed this one on the other boards will know this when pointed out in the first video release on the aircraft).

If it has a blue formation light then its either a P-40E or a British H-87A.......the latter not being seen this end of the world, so then it's down to markings etc.

Unknown if the wiring looms were in place but certainly in E-1's the lights were not.

Buz

Buz

Thanks for clarifying.
It makes me laugh as my role on WIX is to ask questions which others are usually good at answering.
This is the first time I thought that I had some real "fact" (stemming from the work of others) to contribute to a discussion and it was wrong!

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Chris Mellor

This has been a very interesting and informative thread... thanks to all, especially Buz, who contributed constructively.
You learn something new every day!

By the way, Mark... this didn't come from the SDASM archives, it's a scan of a photo in my collection...




Fade to Black...

Apologies Peter-Four-Oh, That image came from a big batch of P-40 photos all listed as from the SDASM archives. I have no doubt it belongs to you and if you wish I'll certainly take it down. I've stated it before that so many photos I post have misleading credit and/or titles if anything at all. And I sometimes take a chance by posting them. Not a problem to take it down though.

I also have been following this thread for some time now and find it to be quite interesting. As long as it's civil.

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]