USS Sable and USS Wolverine ...

JohnB · **Posted:** Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:03 pm

Speaking of storms, it would be interesting to read about the Great Lakes carrier "ops".
Winter weather must have played havoc with training....I'd wonder how storm worthy the two carriers were after having their superstructures cut off.

I really ought to buy the picture book....it's cheap enough and while it won't answer many of my questions, it's better than nothing.

F6FDriver · **Joined:** Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:14 pm **Posts:** 2

I do not remember who posted..but...I am grateful to him because it strike such a responsive chord!!!! USS Wolverine was wher I first carrier qualified! they made me use SNJ-3 (advanced trainer) the tail hook was controlled by sash cord (rope) which had a loop to hook over a knob! Date 12 Nov 1942 signed Robert W. Fleming, Lt(jg) USNR. It was so cold and windy that carrier reduced speed to bare steering speed (otherwise we could not catch carrier(joke) IT was so cold that I declined use of heavy winter pants thinking I could not remove them fast enough if I had to ditch! I never got a wave-off...and when they told me I had qualified I promptly went below to Officers Wardroom and had a cup of chocolate to warm my insides! My last combat duty was on USS Randolph CV-15, with VF-12 ,Skipper F N Michaelis, who later became Full Admiral...Great guy! I still correspond with several of my wingmen...what memories!

Jim MacDonald · **Posted:** Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:31 am

F6FDriver,

Would love to hear more of your experiences, not only with the Wolverine, but with VF-12 as well. Since you qualified in late '42, were you in another squadron besides VF-12 or did you do two tours with VF-12?

Thanks in advance,

Mac

Stoney · **Posted:** Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:23 am

An old friend that was a AP told me the same story about the rope when he carr qualed in 1948, must have been about the sequester :lol:

that the Navy had to use a rope to drop the hook

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 6521

Another good morning to wake up and see a post from a veteran. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us. And yes please do share more if you wish. I have several USS Randolph and VF-12 photos to share as well if anyone is interested.

As for the chord tail hook. There are a couple of photos in this thread showing that exact setup. Very interesting. Again welcome Sir and thank you very much for your service and time to post here. Hope to hear more of your experiences.

Mark

AeroDave · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:44 pm **Posts:** 1

To anyone who posted on this thread about USS sable and Wolverine,

My name is Dave O'Malley and I am a volunteer at Vintage Wings of Canada. My guess is that some of you have heard of us. But if you haven't please go o www.vintagewings.ca and check out our collection and website.

I am the manager, designer, editor and writer (of the bulk of the stories on our website). We run a story about some unique part of WWII history, aviators and our won happenings and events. I run one of these stories each week. I was sent this thread a while back and it frankly blew my mind. I had never heard about the Lake carriers before... I had heard of USS Sable and Wolverine but I had not known they operated exclusively in the lakes. This material would make a great story on our website. I am writing to ask the photo submitters and the thread originator if they would allow me to pull some of this material from the WIX site and build a story about it. Ryan Keough would be able to vouch for my abilities and credibility.

I just want your permission and I will credit all as requested and WIX in both the story and a callout and link at the end - I will encourage people to join up. I have 9500 readers worldwide. Of course I can only pay in gratitude and proper credit... oh and a personal tour should any of you get to see us. Let me know if it would be OK

Dave O'Malley

51fixer · **Posted:** Wed May 22, 2013 12:34 pm

Stoney wrote:

An old friend that was a AP told me the same story about the rope when he carr qualed in 1948, must have been about the sequester :lol:

that the Navy had to use a rope to drop the hook

Many of the USN carrier A/C had hooks that extended only, F4F series, F6F for example. There was a handle and the hook rolled down a track into position.
SBD had a handle with a cable to extend and retract the hook IIRC.
Others had a small hook to hold up the main hook that would be released when you pulled the handle.
The SNJ was not a factory system so I guess they did whatever worked. Is there any SNJ-3C, not -5C, that still exist?
Our SNJ-3 was at Glenview in 44/45 but only did the Field Carrier Practice Training on a runway.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 6521

Welcome Dave, anything I can do to help feel free to ask. PM sent.

Mark

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed May 22, 2013 9:21 pm

51fixer wrote:

Stoney wrote:

An old friend that was a AP told me the same story about the rope when he carr qualed in 1948, must have been about the sequester :lol:

that the Navy had to use a rope to drop the hook

Many of the USN carrier A/C had hooks that extended only, F4F series, F6F for example. There was a handle and the hook rolled down a track into position.
SBD had a handle with a cable to extend and retract the hook IIRC.
Others had a small hook to hold up the main hook that would be released when you pulled the handle.
The SNJ was not a factory system so I guess they did whatever worked. Is there any SNJ-3C, not -5C, that still exist?
Our SNJ-3 was at Glenview in 44/45 but only did the Field Carrier Practice Training on a runway.

Going out a few years, the F-11F TIGER had a sort of switchblade tailhook that could only be retracted after launch/takeoff because it doubled forward on the tail, and the TIGER had about a two coats of wax clearance with the ground and it had to be deselected for a cement landing.

shrike · **Posted:** Wed May 22, 2013 11:40 pm

The Inspector wrote:

51fixer wrote:

Stoney wrote:

An old friend that was a AP told me the same story about the rope when he carr qualed in 1948, must have been about the sequester :lol:

that the Navy had to use a rope to drop the hook

Many of the USN carrier A/C had hooks that extended only, F4F series, F6F for example. There was a handle and the hook rolled down a track into position.
SBD had a handle with a cable to extend and retract the hook IIRC.
Others had a small hook to hold up the main hook that would be released when you pulled the handle.
The SNJ was not a factory system so I guess they did whatever worked. Is there any SNJ-3C, not -5C, that still exist?
Our SNJ-3 was at Glenview in 44/45 but only did the Field Carrier Practice Training on a runway.

Going out a few years, the F-11F TIGER had a sort of switchblade tailhook that could only be retracted after launch/takeoff because it doubled forward on the tail, and the TIGER had about a two coats of wax clearance with the ground and it had to be deselected for a cement landing.

Going sideways a few steps, the XF5U had the tailhook on thhe topside.

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2726

51fixer wrote:

Is there any SNJ-3C, not -5C, that still exist?

Warbird Directory lists 5 SNJ-3Cs that made it into civilian hands, but none have any info about them after 1957.

cco23i · **Posted:** Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:05 pm

WOW, the neat thing is hearing the stories from vets then seeing the photos of the ships. OUTSTANDING!

F4U-1 · **Joined:** Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:28 am **Posts:** 155

51fixer wrote:

Stoney wrote:

An old friend that was a AP told me the same story about the rope when he carr qualed in 1948, must have been about the sequester :lol:

that the Navy had to use a rope to drop the hook

Many of the USN carrier A/C had hooks that extended only, F4F series, F6F for example. There was a handle and the hook rolled down a track into position.
SBD had a handle with a cable to extend and retract the hook IIRC.
Others had a small hook to hold up the main hook that would be released when you pulled the handle.
The SNJ was not a factory system so I guess they did whatever worked. Is there any SNJ-3C, not -5C, that still exist?
Our SNJ-3 was at Glenview in 44/45 but only did the Field Carrier Practice Training on a runway.

The SBD, at least our example, does have a handle to raise and lower the tailhook. Part of the manufacture of the airframe since all items are listed in the engeenering drawings on film.

My SNJ-5C was modified by the navy and has a slider handle on the right side of the cockpit to raise and lower the tailhook. I found no evidence of it having a latch/hook to release it. I have seen that on others. I have seen several original pictures of tailhook SNJ's where you can see the up/down wire attach point about midpoint of the hook.
Chuck

DBWilde · **Joined:** Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:14 pm **Posts:** 3

The question was raised as to what the TDNs looked like with a pilot aboard.
From the National Archives:

Note the chalked aircraft number on tail. The wings also came off outboard the engines, as they were when barged out to the USS Sable.
And here is one of the control aircraft:

Looks like it is about ready to lay an egg case.

DBWilde · **Joined:** Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:14 pm **Posts:** 3

And I thought it was here someone asked about deck tractors?
One was aboard each ship and typically was parked in front of the island (less likely to be hit during a landing accident). Below is a picture of the one aboard the USS Sable. I believe the brush could be used to deal with snow removal although in the case of the Sable, loose non-skid material was a real problem, especially with the arresting gear.
That is the Navy Pier in the background.

Doug Wilde

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