Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:03 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 589 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:01 pm 
Offline
Wing Commander

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:12 am
Posts: 219
Sasnak wrote:
Matt Gunsch wrote:
Sasnak wrote:
Couple questions for the one(s) in the know:

Why have they not polished, and then eventually painted white, the area right above the cockpit? Is there something wrong with the metal that prevents it from being polished up like the rest of the airframe?

Also wondering whether there are plans to eventually add the 4 gun turrets to the airframe?


Ever work inside a polished metal plane after it has been sitting outside ? That is why it is painted white, it gets too hot inside and every little bit helps

Doc never had turrets installed, so it is correct the way it is.


Matt,

Yes, I see your rationale, but that can't be the reason they have chosen this route. If someone from "Doc" confirms this, then I'd suggest they go ahead and polish the skin to match and simply place a white tarp (of that same size) on top for the times that it sits outside at an airshow. That way, he can look his very best while still staying a bit cooler inside.

And not having turrets can be considered "correct" for this particular airframe, but having them could also be considered correct for a flying B-29, especially one that has the stated "Mission" that Doc does. They did track down a gentleman that had a complete "set" that they were considering, but cost was a factor in them not purchasing them.


Here's an idea: Buy the turrets and donate them to Doc, that should make you a substantial donor to whom they would listen about polishing the fuselage. It's a Win-Win!

C2j


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:05 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:38 pm
Posts: 2098
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
I saw it not long after it had been moved into outside storage. At that time it had a perfect mirror finish but had only been outside several months. It sat outside for a few years. They will get it all done eventually with volunteer help. It is a daunting task. Their money has been on getting it airworthy and training flight crews.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:45 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 am
Posts: 4679
Location: Stratford, CT.
I'd just like to see them replace the rear top observation dome. It looks crazed and brown.

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis

Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: http://warbirdwear.com/

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:07 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: Irving, Texas
The cockpit roof was painted white while it was in the military. The Doc folks painted as it was when it last flew in the airforce.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:09 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: Irving, Texas
They have much more restoration work to do, little stuff. They made a huge step in getting it flying and now they need to fine tune the restoration.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:15 pm
Posts: 1307
Location: San Diego CA
Fifi has Turrets and she looks great. Doc does not and it still looks great! It is pretty cool to see two version of this bird. And I am sure they do not mind the weight savings of not having turrets on Doc.

As for the white roof, I am surprised it is not bigger and honestly, unless you are flying up there with Doc, who is going to see it on the ground? The drone photo folks, maybe? From the pics of Doc in China Lake, the white areas, both front and rear, appear to be much larger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:13 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Indiana
I'm not sure where I saw it now but I swear there was a video a couple years ago where they were saying they had the turrets and would be installing them at some point after it was flying again.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:07 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 3281
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
Don't forget that the CAF routinely flies the B-24 and B-29 with windows and hatches open for airflow, but they're always the ones that either you don't see (on top) or are the ones you don't notice all the time (the FE window on the B-29).

While it's nice to have historical accuracy (and speaking of that, the lack of guns is probably more historically accurate for the vast majority of the B-29 fleet since all the ones that deployed to the Pacific ended up having most if not all turrets removed fairly early on in the bombing of Japan when Gen. LeMay changed to low-level bombing in 1944 and served most of the war and even into the Korean War without their turrets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:38 am 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 776
CAPFlyer wrote:
While it's nice to have historical accuracy (and speaking of that, the lack of guns is probably more historically accurate for the vast majority of the B-29 fleet since all the ones that deployed to the Pacific ended up having most if not all turrets removed fairly early on in the bombing of Japan when Gen. LeMay changed to low-level bombing in 1944 and served most of the war and even into the Korean War without their turrets.


CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:04 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 1368
Location: Meriden,Ct.
I thought only the tail gun/cannon was installed during Korea.

Phil

_________________
A man's got to know his limitations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:12 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 776
phil65 wrote:
I thought only the tail gun/cannon was installed during Korea.

Phil


If I recall correctly with the return to medium altitudes for the B-29, and the MiG threat in Korea, that most of the B-29's used in the conventional attacks in Korea had all the top and bottom turrets/guns/gunners as well as the tail position. I'll try to pull out some references, but a google search does show pictures of B-29's in Korea with the fuselage turrets installed with guns mounted, and a few articles.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:46 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 3281
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:10 am 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:46 pm
Posts: 328
CAPFlyer wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:02 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:10 pm
Posts: 2989
Location: New York
Here are a couple of Pacific combat vet B-29s being used as stateside trainers in 1947 (at Keesler, I believe as ground instruction airplanes). Not trying to make a definitive statement on turrets vs. not, just a couple of data points.

Image

Image

Quote:
There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


I'm sure they could, but they weren't facing Zeros. The question is could they outrun a Ki-45, N1K2-J, Ki-61 or Ki-44. Not to mention several pre-production Japanese fighters that the U.S. couldn't count on not reaching operational status before the war would end.

August

_________________
Image
http://aircraft-in-focus.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:33 pm 
Offline
Flight Sergeant

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:43 pm
Posts: 78
Location: SE Pa
menards wrote:
CAPFlyer wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


In addition to k5083s points, consider the situation where the defenses are already at your altitude ( or higher ) and ahead of you waiting. They don't need to outrun or outclimb you.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 589 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mazdaP5 and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group