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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Warbird Digest
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Don't forget that the CAF routinely flies the B-24 and B-29 with windows and hatches open for airflow, but they're always the ones that either you don't see (on top) or are the ones you don't notice all the time (the FE window on the B-29).

While it's nice to have historical accuracy (and speaking of that, the lack of guns is probably more historically accurate for the vast majority of the B-29 fleet since all the ones that deployed to the Pacific ended up having most if not all turrets removed fairly early on in the bombing of Japan when Gen. LeMay changed to low-level bombing in 1944 and served most of the war and even into the Korean War without their turrets.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:38 am 
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CAPFlyer wrote:
While it's nice to have historical accuracy (and speaking of that, the lack of guns is probably more historically accurate for the vast majority of the B-29 fleet since all the ones that deployed to the Pacific ended up having most if not all turrets removed fairly early on in the bombing of Japan when Gen. LeMay changed to low-level bombing in 1944 and served most of the war and even into the Korean War without their turrets.


CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:04 am 
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I thought only the tail gun/cannon was installed during Korea.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:12 pm 
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phil65 wrote:
I thought only the tail gun/cannon was installed during Korea.

Phil


If I recall correctly with the return to medium altitudes for the B-29, and the MiG threat in Korea, that most of the B-29's used in the conventional attacks in Korea had all the top and bottom turrets/guns/gunners as well as the tail position. I'll try to pull out some references, but a google search does show pictures of B-29's in Korea with the fuselage turrets installed with guns mounted, and a few articles.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:46 pm 
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sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:10 am 
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CAPFlyer wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Here are a couple of Pacific combat vet B-29s being used as stateside trainers in 1947 (at Keesler, I believe as ground instruction airplanes). Not trying to make a definitive statement on turrets vs. not, just a couple of data points.

Image

Image

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There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


I'm sure they could, but they weren't facing Zeros. The question is could they outrun a Ki-45, N1K2-J, Ki-61 or Ki-44. Not to mention several pre-production Japanese fighters that the U.S. couldn't count on not reaching operational status before the war would end.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:33 pm 
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menards wrote:
CAPFlyer wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
CAP as a point of discussion it may be more correct to state that guns, sighting systems, ammo and some gunners were removed for some of the low level fire bombing raids, but I believe many of the actual turrets remained? The switch to low level was early 1945. Happy to be corrected, but I don't think actual turret removal was done much in the forward theatre bases such as Guam, Tinian and Saipan. There was a series of 300+ late production B-29-B's that left the factory without turrets, as did the Silver-plate aircraft of course.

Yes many stateside trainers and post war aircraft were with out turrets, but it may be that many/most served in the Pacific with turrets.

Also the guns, turrets, ammo and gunners returned for Korea.


My understanding is that the full turrets were removed and the holes patched over. As the turret was designed to be removed as a complete unit for servicing in the field, it would be more expedient to remove the whole thing and save several hundred pounds each as the guns and ammunition were only about 1/3 to 3/5 of the total weight of the turret from what I've read. I've found a few pics online of the aircraft with the turrets removed in theater, but it seems that late war B-29 operations in the Pacific are something that still isn't widely indexed on the WorldWideWeb.


There are a few sources that stated a stripped down B29 void of turrets, guns, ammo, armor plate, etc etc etc and flying lite could out climb and effectively out run a Zero. If this was true at the time...then why have them?


In addition to k5083s points, consider the situation where the defenses are already at your altitude ( or higher ) and ahead of you waiting. They don't need to outrun or outclimb you.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:59 pm 
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