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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:18 am 
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Hi all,
finished an extensive pictorial photo report on Greybull visit, the ultimate firebomber boneyard.
It was a revisit for me, 1st time was in 1994. But time slows down there.
While a number of air frames indeed have disappeared over the years, flown out or scrapped, I
found a few 'recent' arrivals.
It was fun to solve the identities of a few unmarked hulks, but some persist in their mysteries even
after 2 decades.
First page is: http://www.ruudleeuw.com/usa14-greybull.htm
You'll find the link to page no.2 and also to the now revised Greybull Log Reports, a page I started with
the intention of identifying some airframes 10-12 years ago.
Comments welcomed,
Ruud ('Rudi')


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Ruud, what a great essay, thank you so much for posting! Some great research and really like how you tied the airframes to the overhead shots, as I have spent time on google maps looking at Greybull, but always wanted to know more about them.

My favorites were the C-82's and tanker 97. Hope they survive somehow.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:32 pm 
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What a great bit of research and documentation, thanks for sharing!
I believe the "C-LIF" mystery on the vertical fin of the C-119 is actually "CALIF" as in California ANG. You can see the sheen is different where the A was.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:37 pm 
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As communicated in a longer note to the originator of the thread, the C-119 "Georgia Box" was owned by one of the proprietors of the Air Acres Museum in Cartersville, GA in the late 80's until (maybe) the early '90's. Most of the aircraft aligned with that museum were "Georgia something"...

The museum fell on tough times after David Brady's T-37 vs A-26 accident in the early '90's, then downsized and left the Cartersville Airport in the late '90's or thereabouts.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Fantastic stuff, Ruud. thanks much for putting all that together.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:30 pm 
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On his website, he mentions that the Greybull airport was recently expanded.
He seems to think it was a DoD effort.

I would have thought that any money spent on a SAC dispersal/deployment base would have been spent long ago...and in places that required less work...alogical assumption considering all the closed SAC bases out there.

I was wondering if it wasn't a local effort (using state and Fed money) to bring jobs to the area.

Anyone know more?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:24 pm 
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JohnB

You are correct. State and Fed money was used to build a new runway a couple years ago. The old runway 15/33 is now the parallel taxiway. This past fall, the north end of the ramp was rejuvenated and there are future plans for the south ramp area.

The original poster may be confused with the enormous hangar, (200x200 if I remember right), that was built back in 2007. The current occupier of that particular hangar is B&G Industries. They were banking on DoD work for the MAFFS C-130s, however, the deal fell through. Someone correct me if I'm wrong... I am fairly certain the hangar was built by Bighorn County, with federal subsidies, obviously.

Three locals from Greybull are, once again, trying to get the museum going again with emphasis placed on aerial firefighting, as well as telling the story of Hawkins & Powers Aviation. I hope like heck they can get it going. H&P/Avery Aviation/Christler & Avery Aviation all need the due recognition it so deserves through their aviation pioneering efforts that all originated at that little Greybull airport.

Craig
(proud former H&P employee)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:29 am 
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Hi,
thanks for kind words and bits of info.
About the museum: I think it was open for some time this summer, obviously a volunteer thing and I hope it works out. Certainly adds a dimension to that rest stop there.

About the airport works and suspected military use: the info is scarce but I can see logic in it, even only in some
potential logistics use. Mind, I found also info on North Big Horn County Airport use described as 'military' among the usual.
But on KGEY buckets of money has been spent and I hope, in future, to learn more about it. My text should be read as such, 'pulling' for info.

About the hangar: throwing this in with the airport renovations may have been inspired by Area 52 scenarios, with military stealth aircraft flying in & out, with a large hangar to hide in.
My previous list on my page Greybull Log Reports had two sightings of USAF C-130s (both FY 73-) in 2005 and no sightings of these aircaft since. So around that time the MAFF work may have been a real scenario which did not develop beyond 2005? At least more believable than accommodating stealth aircraft, LOL!

Then there is Harold Shepard, whose name is also written as Harold Sheppard, sometimes with 'Jr' added.
He has had some run ins with KGEY airport management, communicating via lawyers. Could be that all is well now. He offered to add aircraft to the museum, quid pro quo. The P-2 I think he owns moved back into the boneyard. He overstates condition of DC-3s (probably misquoted and DC-4s were meant) as being almost complete; the ones he took from Mesa-Falcon Field really took a beating and I very much doubt whether Mr Shepard has the engineering qualifications or the means to put them together. Same for the Sheridan 4-0-4s. I find his role here fascinating.

I think Duane Powers still lives at KGEY? Don't know what happened to the other gents, Dan & Bob Hawkins and Gene Powers; I think in the final stages of HP operations several aircraft were reregistered to D&D Industries (Dan & Duane?), perhaps working on a restart of operations? Would welcome details.

These pages were compiled by the info I have collected over the years, since my interest for prop transports and their continued use 'infected' me. Kept a database on individual aircraft and people helped me with info when they came across my website and that Greybull Log Report.
And I hope to continue that, love digging in the history. But the history really comes alive for me is when people connect to it with their experiences.

Thanks all and best wishes for 2015,
Rudi


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Rudi,

There has been a lot of federal grant money awarded to the Greybull airport since H&P's demise in recent years and there are future airport projects in the works as well. Bighorn County has been aggressively promoting the airport.

Last I heard Harold Sheppard and B&G Industries, the new FBO, are at odds over the airplanes in storage at the "North 40" area regarding past and present land leases that the aircraft in question were/are parked on.

Dan Hawkins passed away in July of 2006. Gene still lives in Greybull, don't know what happened to Duane. Bob Hawkins is still in Greybull as well and manages an FBO in Worland, Wyoming.

D&G Inc. was Dan and Gene. Quite a few of the P-2's, a couple helicopters, and several other airplanes were reregistered in the late '90's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this was done to take advantage of some tax laws. I know for certain that there are no plans whatsoever regarding a restart of operations. Hopefully the museum will gain traction in the upcoming years.

You have a very impressive collection of H&P pictures/stories on your web page. It's always enjoyable frequenting your site.

Craig


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:03 am 
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...Kinda makes me think of Erickson's Mini-Guppy and its wing spar corrosion issues.

I wonder if one of the Greybull KC-97s [53-0208 (N397HP)] wings are compatible and are solid enough to contribute to the cause.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:07 am 
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Craig, many thanks.
You probably know that there is an excellent fire bomber section in Missoula's Museum of Mountain Flying.
Also recently visited: www.ruudleeuw.com/usa14-museumofmountainflying.htm
'Left Seat': in terms construction the guys at BAHF may offer expert advise, but it will be a heck of a job, never
mind hauling it.
cheers
Rudi


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Rudi,

You are so right... it would be a "heck of a job".

Erickson's MiniGuppy is Boeing 377 based. I'm not sure if the Boeing 377/C97 uses tapered pins like the B-17 to attach the wings. Removal would be more difficult than the B-17, since the 377/C97 wing is larger, heavier, and possibly more complex.

The Boeing 377/C97 wing span is about 141 feet, so each wing would be around 66 feet long. The minimum allowable length limit for a Truck Tractor-Semitrailer Combination is 14.63 m (48 feet) with a width of 8 1/2 feet. Height restrictions are between 13.5 and 14 feet depending on the state.
US Dept of Transportation regs: http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/publications/size_regs_final_rpt/index.htm#devices

All it takes is money.

I watched them haul a B-1B Lancer (sans its wings) up I-5 a couple of years ago at less than 45 mph, driving only at night.
A whopping 135 feet long and 26 feet wide!
I've also seen them transport hydroplanes (mounted diagonally) on a "low boy".

Image
The B-1 story:
http://www.redding.com/news/left-along-the-road-151-just-a-b-1-bomber

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Last edited by Left Seat on Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:22 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:19 pm 
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"All it takes is money..." where have I heard that before?!
Money-wise the desert looms larger than Wyoming!
Pray for better times,
Rudi


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Rudi, thanks so much for posting. Your web presentations are spectacular, makes me feel as though I got to go there myself! 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Did the C-119 ever have a civil type certificate, and did anyone ever operate one commercially hauling freight, or only as a firebomber?

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