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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Does anyone have any current updates on the P-38 and B-17 which now belongs to the Collings Foundation? These aircraft were with the Evergreen Museum. I thought I read somewhere that there is a crew out at the museum working on one or both of these aircraft preparing them for flight. I would assume back to American Aero in Florida. If this is true would I be correct that it would be under some type of a Ferry Permit? Any info on these aircraft would be much appreciated thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:23 am 
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I heard from a source yesterday the P-38 may indeed end up at AAS. Don't recall if the B-17 was in the conversation. It might have been and I missed it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:49 am 
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I read a Facebook discussion on either the WIX or Fans Of The B-17 Flying Fortress page about the B-17 being prepared for flight at the Museum about a month or more ago. Haven't seen a post on these about it since. Our WIX friends in the Collings Foundation might shed a bit of light...and a new post requesting info on the B-17 on either Facebook page might also elicit some updates from someone in the know that watches these...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Does the B-17 need to have the Spar fixed? I don't know if it has flown since the AD was issued.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:29 pm 
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According to their website,Evergreen grounded her in 2001 after flying for several years due to concerns about her wing spars. So CF will indeed be rebuilding her wing spars if they plan to fly her. They knew that going in of course.

Evergreen Museum website info on the B-17G sold to CF.
http://www.evergreenmuseum.org/evergreens-mystery-lady

Evergreen is not sure of the serial number, either it's 44-83785 or 44-85531. The website asserts it was a CIA operated aircraft operated from Taiwan in the 1950s and for Intermountain Airways in the early 60s where she was fitted with a skyhook for agent recovery. Hence the "lost" serial number.

Collings Foundation website info on the purchase of the Evergreen B-17G and P-38, dated 2015.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/2015/ ... o-join-cf/

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:24 pm 
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They got the engines running on the P-38 today.

From what I have read the plan is to ferry the B-17 and P-38 to American Aero for further maintenance prior to joining the Collings tour / collection in the future.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:00 pm 
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TriangleP wrote:
According to their website,Evergreen grounded her in 2001 after flying for several years due to concerns about her wing spars. So CF will indeed be rebuilding her wing spars if they plan to fly her. They knew that going in of course.

Evergreen is not sure of the serial number, either it's 44-83785 or 44-85531. The website asserts it was a CIA operated aircraft operated from Taiwan in the 1950s and for Intermountain Airways in the early 60s where she was fitted with a skyhook for agent recovery. Hence the "lost" serial number.


Might be a good time to verify once and for all when they redo the wings - look for any hidden inspection stamps; if they're Douglas it's 44-83785, if they're Lockheed/Vega it's 44-85531. I doubt the CIA would have bothered de-skinning the wings to grind off all the stamps.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:59 am 
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I wasn't aware the P-38 sold. Anyone got an idea of price? Surely, significantly below "Glacier Girl" s sale price. Are the markings, Gerry Johnson, 9th FS , Japan 1945 ?

Collings Foundation run a very professional outfit. This sale is a win for U.S. warbird enthusiasts. Looking forward to seeing it on the show circuit.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:30 am 
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43-2195 wrote:
I wasn't aware the P-38 sold. Anyone got an idea of price? Surely, significantly below "Glacier Girl" s sale price. Are the markings, Gerry Johnson, 9th FS , Japan 1945 ?

Collings Foundation run a very professional outfit. This sale is a win for U.S. warbird enthusiasts. Looking forward to seeing it on the show circuit.



The asking price was north of 6 million...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:24 pm 
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43-2195 wrote:
I wasn't aware the P-38 sold. Anyone got an idea of price? Surely, significantly below "Glacier Girl" s sale price. Are the markings, Gerry Johnson, 9th FS , Japan 1945 ?

Collings Foundation run a very professional outfit. This sale is a win for U.S. warbird enthusiasts. Looking forward to seeing it on the show circuit.


Was part of a large package including real estate and aircraft, so there is no individual "sale prices" for the aircraft including the B-17 and P-38. The aircraft were not recently offered "for sale" individually, so there is no firm number to compare.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Thanks for that, much appreciated. I always thought the sale price of "Glacier Girl" was a little high. I suspect the well documented and highly publicised provenance drove it up. So when this P-38 came on the market and the asking price was "a little north of 6 million" , I wasn't too surprised that it didn't selll immediately. I wonder if the Klaers have an accurate figure of how much it actually cost to recover "White 33" and return it to airworthy condition. I suspect it could be achieved for under 5 million (but I am just guessing).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:10 pm 
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I do remember seeing this P-38 back when it was with the Harrah's collection.
It was stored outside under a "T-hanger" type structure and parked next to a P-40.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:39 pm 
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Although the P-38 was indeed initially listed for sale on its own, for just over $6m, it ended up being part of the group of aircraft purchased, which also included the Evergreen B-17G, Spitfire Mk.XVI, Bf-109G, P-40K, Curtiss-Wright CW-22, DH4M-1, and a Stearman, for what was published as $22m for it all.

As an asside, it has been published that Rod Lewis purchased "Glacier Girl" at the cost of $7m USD, back in 2007. By comparison, the cost of an Avspecs-restored flying Mosquito has been said to be around/near $6m USD (around/near $8m NZD).


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:27 am 
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43-2195 wrote:
Thanks for that, much appreciated. I always thought the sale price of "Glacier Girl" was a little high. I suspect the well documented and highly publicised provenance drove it up. So when this P-38 came on the market and the asking price was "a little north of 6 million" , I wasn't too surprised that it didn't selll immediately. I wonder if the Klaers have an accurate figure of how much it actually cost to recover "White 33" and return it to airworthy condition. I suspect it could be achieved for under 5 million (but I am just guessing).



Any sale is a meeting of the minds between purchaser and seller. Its the common ground between the most a purchaser is willing to pay and the least a seller is willing to accept. There was more to the story with GG though. IIRC, the Schoffner family sold it for somewhere in the $3.5 million range...then Rod Lewis bought it for $7M. The ultimate flip.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:14 am 
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I heard rumor that once completed, the Evergreen B-17 will wear different markings than it currently has. Any ideas floating around as to what she will wear? Was curious if they would paint her up as one of '909's sister ships from the 91st BG, such as "Sweet 17" or "Cheri", or go in a completely different direction. Or, leave her in her current markings.

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