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Classic Wings Magazine Luftwaffe Resource Center WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Avnut wrote:
This makes me mad. There are museums that would love to have these in their collection, the only reason none were claimed any is the museums being told if you want them come get them on your dime, we the Air Force will not help in transporting them to you. We spend around $500 billion a year on defense and no money can be allocated in helping approved museums to preserve this history! Once these aircraft are cut up, they are GONE FOREVER. We are no longer producing a wide variety of different aircraft types, as a result in the future there will be fewer unique types to see in museums. Everyone and their mother will have an F-35 in their collection, but what about a YA-7F. There were 2 YC-15s built with one sitting on Celebrity Row for several years at AMARC within towing distance to Pima. It was scrapped, with no effort being made to transfer it.

Looking over the auction list, an F-105F not converted to a Wild Weasel, only 71 F-105Bs were built, only 50 C-133s built. How many C-97s are preserved, or B-66s, or even HU-16s?

I am sure we all agree that the ultimate stupid award for not preserving history goes to the Navy regarding the "Enterprise" CV-6. Dumb (insert color metaphor of your choosing).


The continual debate: save them all, or concentrate on those that can be reasonably saved? As much as we all like war birds, I do understand that "we cant' save them all", and it does beg the question how many do we need? I love the C-133 and am most sad about that one likely getting scrapped, but is the current survivor list sufficient? Should we spend lots of tax money on "another" C-133 when the "best" survivor is a few hours up the road in Dayton? Was any museum really wanting it given the costs? The C-133 move to the Dover museum did get some support from the USAF with C-5 "training" flights to move it, but was a huge and well planned undertaking. In my view F-105's, C-133, KC-97 and HU-16s are reasonably well represented in collections. The B-66 perhaps not as much, but this example had some issues.

Now for sole survivors, or ultra rare survivors, I'm all for maximum effort. Remind me again why the Savage continues to rot on the Pensacola ramp?

As you brought us ships, the costs and questions are even more staggering. I do agree that the Enterprise would have been a good choice for preservation, but we have multiple battleships, aircraft carriers and submarines from WWII on display. Many are in museums barely getting by, and some will likely face a very tough decision in the decade or so ahead.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Sadly, the majority of the public couldn't care less about preserving history. There is a ton of great history preserved at museums all over the world. But museums are closing their doors at an alarming rate. Why? Because, for the most part, too much of the population simply doesn't care. Of course, it's a big deal to enthusiasts like us (which is why we're on this forum) but in the grand scheme of things, we're just a tiny spec.

Watch what happens at the next non-warbird-specific air show you attend. When the aerobatic pilots are up in their Extra 300s performing maneuvers that seem to defy the very laws of physics, or when the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds are ripping up the sky in their super-cool fighter jets, the majority of the spectators are in awe and are fully engaged. When the warbird flybys are going on, just droning by in lazy circuits, over and over again, it's apparently a good time to go get a hot dog or visit the porta-potty. People might watch for a minute or so, especially if something really recognizable and well-known is flying, such as a P-51 or B-17, but their interest quickly wanes and they pull out their iPhones and start checking their Twitter feeds. Think I'm wrong? Pay attention at your next air show; you'll see what I mean.

Me? I'm a life-long aviation enthusiast, gear head, and history buff. I'd love to save 'em all. It makes me angry and sad each time I learn of another historical artifact getting scrapped, be it an aircraft, ship, train, automobile, or whatever. I do what I can, which ain't much, but it's a losing battle.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Auction closed today - get your last looks while you can. Anyone know where the F-101 is going? It's not on the list of airframes to be sold for scrap and was still in presentable shape.

I saved most of the auction photos - had to do screengrabs that are only 640x480 but I got 'em.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:42 pm 
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I remember visiting the St. Louis Air Museum a few years ago and they had a wall sized mural of an F6F Hellcat on a wall. The museum was located in a worn out old hangar and there were tons of boxes of donated items and model airplanes. I asked "What's the deal with the Hellcat mural?" They said, well when we re-opened, we had a nce banquet and the billionaire founder of Enterprise Rent A Car donated $10, 000. bucks." I asked "COuldn't you have gotten him to donate a real Hellcat?" My point being is that he was a WW II veteran and flew Hellcats. He could've helped way more with the financial goals of the museum. The volunteers were working hard to maintain what they had.
There's probably a millionaire of billionaire out there who flew, or their dad flew some of those aircraft at Chanute and they would've paid a handsome figure to retrieve and bring back home. Not much was known about the history of aircraft remaining in the museum or the pilots that flew them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:23 pm 
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sandiego89 wrote:
Remind me again why the Savage continues to rot on the Pensacola ramp?


:drink3:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:37 am 
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marine air wrote:
There's probably a millionaire of billionaire out there who flew, or their dad flew some of those aircraft at Chanute and they would've paid a handsome figure to retrieve and bring back home. Not much was known about the history of aircraft remaining in the museum or the pilots that flew them.


BINGO!

I have been to a few museums this year and visited more then a few museum websites. There is a real lack of public information/public relations regarding important information. Its all about publicity, even if a museum has to have an individual facebook page for each of their aircraft on display. If people don't know whats going on, then that will have a very negative impact on goal achievement.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:25 am 
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hercules130 wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
Remind me again why the Savage continues to rot on the Pensacola ramp?


:drink3:


It's a monster, but I'd love to bring her back to Stratford where she operated for years. But I too believe Pensacola would be the only other appropriate place for her (albeit inside and restored).

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Last edited by Warbird Kid on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Speaking of the B-66 Mike Kellner's group tried to save it but we were told by the NMUSAF that they did not believe it was worth being saved as there are 6 or so others including one on display at the NMUSAF despite the fact this one was a JRB-66D and the only one of that particular variant still around. We tried again in August but the NMUSAF gave us the run around (Contact DLA and Gov liquidation who told us to contact the NMUSAF who told us to contact just the DLA again and so on).We also tried to save the VC-47, KC-97, and the two F-105s but were once again told that they were not historically important.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:39 am 
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Welcome to WIX, Jon, and thanks for the info. I kinda figured something like that would happen. Any info on the F-101?

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Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, B-17G 42-102875


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:46 am 
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Chris Brame wrote:
Welcome to WIX, Jon, and thanks for the info. I kinda figured something like that would happen. Any info on the F-101?

Thanks for the Welcome! I have some info on the F-101 It will be transported to the Southern Museum of Flight in Birmingham, Ala. Source http://www.rantoulpress.com/news/living ... eaves.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:55 am 
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Have they all gone now?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Nothing in the Rantoul Press about it lately; last word was the scrapping would be this spring or summer.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, B-17G 42-102875


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:26 pm 
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ok thanks..

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:45 pm 
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We're any bits saved?

I'd like a C-47 control wheel (my father flew them), or perhaps a seat or wheel from the HU-16.

Did a local from scrap them...if so, did they retain the bits?
If so, any contact info?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:58 pm 
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hercules130 wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
Remind me again why the Savage continues to rot on the Pensacola ramp?


:drink3:


It was flying when it left Connecticut! :(

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