Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:58 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine Luftwaffe Resource Center WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:41 am 
Offline
Flight Sergeant

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Cornwall UK
KiwiZac wrote:
Chris Brame wrote:
I just hope they'll finally have some high-quality full-scale replica TBDs built.

I think I know a potential source for those... :wink:


Tempting, very tempting indeed. I for one would like us to build an Avenger as ground crewed on a British one for a few years during the 90s. For this and the other types required, they are a little thin on the ground over here in the UK, but having built the P-51s and P-40s for 'Red Tails', the Lysander for 'Allied' and two Spitfires for 'Dunkirk', I am sure we could rise to the challenge. Would make a pleasant change from building Spitfires, but then there is talk of a remake of the Battle of Britain film. Hurricanes and 109s....yes please!

Martin
Gateguards


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:21 am 
Offline
Wing Commander

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 259
T6flyer wrote:
KiwiZac wrote:
Chris Brame wrote:
I just hope they'll finally have some high-quality full-scale replica TBDs built.

I think I know a potential source for those... :wink:


Tempting, very tempting indeed. I for one would like us to build an Avenger as ground crewed on a British one for a few years during the 90s. For this and the other types required, they are a little thin on the ground over here in the UK, but having built the P-51s and P-40s for 'Red Tails', the Lysander for 'Allied' and two Spitfires for 'Dunkirk', I am sure we could rise to the challenge. Would make a pleasant change from building Spitfires, but then there is talk of a remake of the Battle of Britain film. Hurricanes and 109s....yes please!

Martin
Gateguards

Question for you T6flyer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the replica's you've built based off of moulds taken from a real aircraft? Given that there is not a single TBD in the world available to make moulds off of, could you make an accurate replica just based off of blueprints/engineering drawings? Let's say that those blueprints/engineering drawings don't exist. Could you then make them just off of photographs? TIA!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:41 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 2:15 am
Posts: 540
Location: Misawa, Japan
OD/NG,

I requested info from NASM several years ago about purchasing blueprints/engineering drawings of the TBD from them. They didn't have anything except for some photos and I believe some of Paul Matt's scale drawings. I've since been able to get Xerox copies of the maintenance manual, flight manual and engine manual, but NASM didn't even have those at the time I inquired about the blueprints.

I know that there are some scale RC plans for the TBD, but I have no idea how accurate they are. I wonder if it would be possible for Gateguards to use a combination of one of those sets of plans and photos to come up with some accurate replicas.

Maybe Lynn can chime in on whether anything new has come to light in the way of blueprints in the last couple of years. He has or had probably the most informative website out there on the TBD.

Mac

_________________
WWII Naval Aviation Research - Pacific
http://ww2nar-pac.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:31 pm
Posts: 717
Location: Caribou, Maine
The USS Nimitz is still available, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:53 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 pm
Posts: 1783
Location: Utah
old iron wrote:
The USS Nimitz is still available, right?

Or the "Ike" - IIRC

Plus the Midway could be wonderful for interior shots!

Tom P.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 581
I imagine the Lexington folks down in Corpus Christi can expect a call before long. It's a preserved WWII era carrier with working elevators and moored in a way that allows shots free of land/buildings .. which is a lot of what attracted the Pearl Harbor (2001) production team as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 581
I could see the production investing in some quality TBD mockups for ground/deck scenes and closeups of actors in the crew positions .. combined with computer generated versions in the flying scenes. That same technique actually worked pretty well in resurrecting a flight of Curtiss F8Cs for Peter Jackson's 2005 King Kong remake.

We can only hope that the Gateguards phone starts ringing soon, given the stunning quality of their work on the recent 109 replica as well as the Lysander stand-in for Allied. And I'll admit, I'm intrigued by the idea of them doing one or two for museum display .. movie or no movie. Just think how good a battle-ready Devastator would look on display in Pensacola or at the Pacific Aviation Museum on Ford Island.

The blueprints/engineering drawings would be a challenge for sure. I've been chasing them (along with several other WIXers) for years without success. NASM and NMNA don't seem to have them. My only other thought is I remember visiting the old Santa Monica Museum of Flying around 20-25 years ago and being told that they inherited much what was left in the former Douglas Aircraft offices. Perhaps something survived both the end of the company and the downsizing of the museum collection. I don't believe Boeing inherited anything quite that old in the merger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:00 pm 
Offline
Wing Commander

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 259
Jim MacDonald wrote:
OD/NG,

I requested info from NASM several years ago about purchasing blueprints/engineering drawings of the TBD from them. They didn't have anything except for some photos and I believe some of Paul Matt's scale drawings. I've since been able to get Xerox copies of the maintenance manual, flight manual and engine manual, but NASM didn't even have those at the time I inquired about the blueprints.

I know that there are some scale RC plans for the TBD, but I have no idea how accurate they are. I wonder if it would be possible for Gateguards to use a combination of one of those sets of plans and photos to come up with some accurate replicas.

Maybe Lynn can chime in on whether anything new has come to light in the way of blueprints in the last couple of years. He has or had probably the most informative website out there on the TBD.

Mac

Great info, Mac, thanks for that! I was curious if the blueprints/engineering drawings existed for the TBD. With this new information, it make the case even more compelling for going after an existing TBD at the bottom of the ocean - whether it is in Jaluit atoll, off the coast of California, or off the coast of Florida. I know that the U.S. Navy is on record as saying that each of those airplanes is too far gone for restoration and only usable for patterns, but here is the exact situation where we need the patterns. With no blueprints/engineering drawings, no recreation can take place. An actual recovered TBD is the ONLY hope mankind has of ever seeing a restored TBD in a museum some day. I seriously hope that Taras can convince the U.S. Navy to go after the TBD in the deep ocean, thousands of miles away from any island. If so, that would be THE warbird recovery of all times.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:31 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm
Posts: 1188
I would absolutely LOVE to be involved with any attempt to create large scale flying models of the TBD's for the film. :D A well built and flown 1/3 scale model would be indistinguishable from the full size on film and a far better option than CGI if realism is the goal. Probably cheaper too!

PS - My current project, a 1/3.7 scale (115" wing span) Macchi 202. Yet another type that can only be seen flying these days in model form.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:33 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 581
I'm embarrassed to say I forgot about the large scale flying model option. Is 1/3 the same used for the R/C Stukas and other aircraft in Christopher Nolan's upcoming Dunkirk? It'll be interesting to see how they look on the big screen. A physical object lit with natural light and shadow definitely has a different "presence" on screen. And at that size, the models should move through the air with the heft and performance of "real" aircraft (and not the too fast/too precise style that often betrays the purely computer generated versions).

Repeated filming and compositing could bring the extinct types (TBDs, F2As, SB2Us, Vals, and Kates) to squadron strength .. mixed with new footage of full sized birds (F4Fs, SBDs, Zeroes, etc). And if the actors could be shot in flight with mocked up cockpits mounted on different planes (like was done for Dunkirk and The Rocketeer) it could be spectacular.

Fun to contemplate, for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:48 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Meriden,Ct.
Now we just have to throw in a good love story... :axe:

Phil... pop2

_________________
A man's got to know his limitations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:47 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:43 pm
Posts: 828
Location: Marietta, GA
phil65 wrote:
Now we just have to throw in a good love story... :axe:

Phil... pop2


I'm trying to remember the last war movie where the "good love story" was actually additive to the movie.

Thinking, thinking, thinking....

...

...nope...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:51 pm 
Offline
Wing Commander

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 259
Kyleb wrote:
phil65 wrote:
Now we just have to throw in a good love story... :axe:

Phil... pop2


I'm trying to remember the last war movie where the "good love story" was actually additive to the movie.

Thinking, thinking, thinking....

...

...nope...

Please don't call me a chick (I'm NOT!) for saying this, but I thought that the "love story" in "Dark Blue World" was actually pretty good and didn't detract from the story line of the movie. I thought it enhanced rather than subtracted from the overall feel of the movie. Maybe others feel different, but I thought it worked in that case. Other than that, though, I can't think of any other movie where it worked.

It definitely FAILED miserably in "Pearl Harbor". As a matter of fact, "Pearl Harbor", just in general, and on a matter of principle, FAILED overall!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:53 am 
Offline
Flight Sergeant

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Cornwall UK
Question for you T6flyer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the replica's you've built based off of moulds taken from a real aircraft? Given that there is not a single TBD in the world available to make moulds off of, could you make an accurate replica just based off of blueprints/engineering drawings? Let's say that those blueprints/engineering drawings don't exist. Could you then make them just off of photographs? TIA!

Some were built using 'flash' molding from real airframes, one of the Spitfires and the P-51 (which is in the RAF Museum at Cosford) and the rest including the White Bird, Lysander and Bf109 were all constructed from plans and drawings with a few original parts from which plugs were made. We are on the wrong side of the Atlantic as don't have any SBDs over here and the only two TBMs are in the FAA Museum and at Duxford and we can't see ourselves being given permission to flash from them, same goes for F4Fs. So, we would have to buy a CAD image, make a foam model from that, then build a wooden plug and then mold from that. Long winded but the only way possible for us. The Lysander and the 109 have been received well by all who have seen them. The Levasseur PL8 was built basically from photographs - anything is possible. We are currently looking at building a extinct RAF aeroplane - a challenge, but a challenge worth taking.

Best wishes,

Martin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:08 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am
Posts: 325
Location: Marblehead Massachusetts
Kyleb wrote:
phil65 wrote:
Now we just have to throw in a good love story... :axe:

Phil... pop2


I'm trying to remember the last war movie where the "good love story" was actually additive to the movie.

Thinking, thinking, thinking....

...

...nope...


"A Guy Named Joe" 1943 Spencer Tracy would be one.

The War Lover" with Steve McQueen - had to have the love story with Robert Wagner and his girl otherwise you couldn't have McQueen try to horn in which caused conflict between McQueen's Character and Wagner's.



There are probably others if you think about it longer.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BenG, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group