Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:32 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 715
CJAM427 wrote:
sandiego89 wrote:
OD/NG wrote:


Also, a swept wing has already been tried on an Unlimited racer. It was called "Vendetta" / "Miss Ashley II". It ended up with disastrous consequences and killed a well known race pilot.


But as I recall, the cause of the crash was likely a trim tab or flutter issue on the tail- not an inherit flaw or direct "consequence" of the moderately swept (tapered?) lear-jet wing. A true swept wing as most define it (ala' f-86 shape) has been mused about, but not applied to an unlimited.

All the best for the record attempt team! It is quite a testament to see how long the record stayed with the me 209, Conquest 1, and Rare Bear.



Any time Miss Ashley II comes up, there's talk that the swept wing wasn't the best for the Reno race course, but supposedly in level flight it could really haul the mail. It was still in the development stages when it crashed though. If it is true that the swept wing wasn't the best at Reno, it would be even more true now since the race course is much tighter.

In Voodoo's case, from what I understand, the sponsor had the wing analyzed and figured that with a little modification it would be able to break the record. A lot less expensive than building a new wing or adapting a different one.

Oh and don't forget the Red Baron! Funny that Conquest, Baron and Bear's records are all 10 years apart. It is fitting though as each one was the dominant force in air racing when they set their records.


Yes, all true statements. Generally speaking, swept wing aircraft don't turn as well as straight wing aircraft. If one were to currently build an Unlimited racer with a swept wing, it would be optimized for straight and level all out speed - not real great for a course that has a plane in a turn nearly the entire time like at Reno. Swept wing aircraft tend to have a larger turn radius, a lower rate of turn, and in low aspect ratio swept wings - a higher bleed off of energy (airspeed) via induced drag - during turns. So who, in their right mind, would spend literally millions putting a swept wing on an Unlimited for only one purpose - to capture the world speed record and nothing else. I guess there are multi-millionaires who would do that, but even Rod Lewis had a budget for Air Racing. After "Rare Bear" didn't produce, he effectively grounded the plane.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:46 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:11 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: 16 mi. N of DFW Airport
Which racer project was it that used (or was going to use) wings from a Learjet?

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Lake Dallas, Republic of Texas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:43 am
Posts: 83
Location: Manitowoc, WI
K5DH wrote:
Which racer project was it that used (or was going to use) wings from a Learjet?


Vendetta and then Miss Ashley II used the same wing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 715
Now, all of the details are finally out! We now know where and when and updates from the event will be posted on-line. All the details are here:

http://shotover.com/news/article/pursui ... rd_attempt

Does anybody know who's T-33 that is which is filming the speed run?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:43 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 2265
Location: Minnesota
The T-33 is owned by Dan Friedkin (N133AT to be exact).

The article also confirms Friedkin as being the founder of Pursuit Aviation, which just came on the scene back in June/July, when documenting the journey of Friedkin's "Berlin Express" across the Atlantic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 715
JohnTerrell wrote:
The T-33 is owned by Dan Friedkin (N133AT to be exact).

The article also confirms Friedkin as being the founder of Pursuit Aviation, which just came on the scene back in June/July, when documenting the journey of Friedkin's "Berlin Express" across the Atlantic.


Thanks for the info on the T-33.

Yep, and Aviation Partners is owned by Joe Clark, who is a partner with Clay Lacy. Joe also owns an F7F Tigercat. Once you peel the onion layers off of this record attempt, it becomes obvious that everybody involved in it, from the money end to the flying end is heavily involved in warbirds in some fashion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:26 pm
Posts: 235
And with the swept wings wouldn't a canard help stabilize the plane better for the tight turns? And then add a high speed ducted fan to replace the prop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:26 pm
Posts: 235
It did a double post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:22 pm 
Offline
KiwiZac
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:33 am
Posts: 1440
Location: Blenheim, NZ
Pursuit will livestream today's attempt on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PursuitAviationCo/

Going by the photos they've posted today looks like a fantastic day for flying!

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am
Posts: 3321
exhaustgases wrote:
And with the swept wings wouldn't a canard help stabilize the plane better for the tight turns? And then add a high speed ducted fan to replace the prop.

1) The record runs are over a straight-line course.

2) Exactly where do you propose to put the duct part of the ducted fan?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:38 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Oklahoma
When will the attempt occur?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:49 pm 
Offline
KiwiZac
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:33 am
Posts: 1440
Location: Blenheim, NZ
Pursuit Aviation posted on Facebook less than 10min ago: "We are preparing for the attempt as we speak! To be notified right when the Live broadcast starts, click “Follow” at the top of the page. From there, you can choose to be notified for “All Live Videos”. Stay tuned!"

Their page is at https://www.facebook.com/PursuitAviationCo/

EDIT: "UPDATE: Due to current conditions the World Record attempt will be delayed until tomorrow. We will let everyone know in the morning about tomorrow afternoon's attempt and the live feed."

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:52 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 1933
Location: Meriden,Ct.
Thanks for the up-dates.

Phil

_________________
A man's got to know his limitations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Lexington, KY
"After yesterday’s delay, we’re aiming at an afternoon attempt for the Speed World Record! Stay tuned for updates and click FOLLOW at the top of the page to be notified when we go LIVE! ✈️ #PursuitAviation"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:13 pm 
Offline
KiwiZac
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:33 am
Posts: 1440
Location: Blenheim, NZ
They're live, I think I just saw the chase/camera T-33 take off: https://www.facebook.com/pg/PursuitAvia ... e_internal

EDIT: It was aborted and I think they're trying again tomorrow.

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Michel Lemieux and 91 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group