Warbird Information Exchange

Hello All,

Does anyone here have experience in polishing weathered aluminum? What materials have you used? What process do you use?

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.

Best product I have run across is called WEND. From Germany, it tends to bring up alluminum to a nice polish.

Dave

Have you used it on anything that has been exposed to the elements over a long term (multiple decades)? How is it applied? What equipment is used?

Please excuse the ignorance. I am doing some asking on behalf of Project North Star.

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.

Step one: Phosphoric Acid etch (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/c ... eaners.php ALUMA-DYNE E-2310 ETCH AND BRIGHTENER for example).

You'll probably need a drum for the size of the aircraft you are working on. There are probably far better local sources for the acid than the source I have listed, so do a little searching of chemical supply houses (note the MIL-SPEC for the acid). Phosphoric acid shouldn't be hard to find. Maybe order a quart and give it a try. You shouldn't need much more than rubber gloves, eye protection, and plenty of water.

You need to dilute the acid with water per the instructions, apply to the aircraft in a small area (don't spray the entire aircraft at once), then scour the corrosion away using mildly abrasive Scotchbrite pads. The surface has to be kept wet and the acid can't be left on too long or the skin will become streaky.

Step two: Polishing is a whole different story and will require abrasive and pneumatic or electric polishing equipment. For an airplane that size you are talking tens of thousands of dollars of labor.

My guess is that after brightening the aircraft will look very good and you will stop there!

I was at Castle Air Mus in California this past April and was talking to a guy who worked there. I forgot what he said they started to use but they had their B-47 looking like a mirror and I want to say it was something stupid like Corn meal or something. I'll keep looking for it in the back of my mind. That B-47 sat down in China Lake Weapon Center for a number of years until they flew it up to the Castle AFB in the mid / late 80's. I wish I could have been there to see that come in, or take off. Too bad they didn't get a air to air shots during the flight (OR did someone?)

Once the materials and equipment needs are sorted out, then it is just a matter of arranging a polishing team. We are an organizing of volunteers, and our volunteer base is growing.

Thanks for the tips. If you think of anything else, let me know.

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.

I can tell you after several decades of polishing warbirds, the simple answer is it's not fun, it's not easy and do not believe 90% of what people say will work.

Corn Starch can be used as a buffing agent with a polishing wheel. Surprising it works not too bad at all.

WEND is a liquid polish that is the best product I have come across - I likely have used more than a hundred products over the years. One litre will go quite far and it is not too bad to work with.

The most important thing is not to do anything that is not reversable. Acid cleaning, line grinding, etc. cuts into the alluminum. If in doubt, test on a hidden area (Fuselage under a wing fairing or somewhere similar).

If the aircraft is outside. Don't be silly, don't bother. Its a good deal of work and it will not last. Before someone suggests it, I would stay clear of clear coating after polishing. I have seen too many clear coat jobs turn yellow after a while...even more work to remove.

I hate to say it, but if the aircraft is going to stay outside, you may consider silver paint. If painting, take care with the prep, no acid etching, no body filler. Should someone wish to polish one day, you will screw things up big time for them. There are some good paint products out there that will make it look just fine - but nothing beats polished alluminum.

Dave

That was it, Corn starch. I e-mailed Castle but haven't gotten a reply back. I guess when it never comes I won't sweet it

Hey Mike,

I own a polished Cessna 170B and am working on the bottom of the wings that havent been polished in a couple years. So these are very weathered. I HIGHLY recommend the polish and procedures on the following web site.

www.perfectpolish.com

Read up on the different procedures and it should help you figure out what type of project you are up against. The line of polishes made by NUVITE are, in my opinion, the best out there. I have been polishing aircraft for over 10 years now and love this polish. Goes on easy... and the residue comes off easy... does a great job. Feel free to email me if you have any questions. Pictures of the results are on my web site.

What will you be polishing? It is not fun work but it sure looks good.

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Blue Skies,
Dan
http://www.flytoanothertime.com

Nuvite is definitely the way to go.

Make sure you have someone there who's done it before and knows what they're doing. The danger of having complete novices do it is leaving ugly swirl marks, caused by too much material being left on the buffer.

I must agree with your first statement, but not in the way you intended it.

Unless you acid etch the surface, your silver paint will not stick either. The acid etch removes the aluminum oxide buildup, the exact thing that is causing the poor appearance to begin with. Most of the bare metal aircraft out there that are not polished are treated in this manner, sometimes annually.

How do you intend to prep the surface of the metal for painting? Sanding? That would do far more damage (remove more metal)!

And guess what the ingredient is in the self-etching primer many shops use to paint aircraft?

P.S. There is a different acid used to etch magnesium.

Etched, but not polished:

Etched, but not polished:

http://community.webshots.com/album/87012289aGPdoR/2

Though this is an older thread, I found a pretty good article explaining the polishing process on a bare-metal Ryan SC-W by Russell Williams. He recommends NuVite as well and goes into a "beginners" approach to the polishing process:

http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm

Ryan Keough

http://www.flitz.com/

This stuff is the best I've ever seen. I love a polished airplane, but Lord do I hate the work.

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Brad

Jeepers, another expanding topic.

With regard to painting aircraft:

Acid etching is not the only method of preping alluminum for paint.

In the good old days, we simply wiped and aircraft with laquer thinner and used zinc chromate as a primer. No sanding, no etching. I have painted many aircraft in this fashion, and can assure you the paint does not fall off afterwards. (Contrary to popular belief, zinc chromate is still avaliable. I purchase it on a regular basis).

Heck, I was involved in a quickie paint job on a T-28 a 8 or 10 years back that used eggshell latex house paint - as far as I know, it's still flying with that paint. (It's a long story that involved an owner with a desire to look good for an airshow in an economical quick and dirty way - it ended up looking so accurate he never bothered to strip and re-paint).

Yes, modern paint techniques are fantastic and better than anything we used to have. However, most preparation techniques do involve etching - hence my warning. I know owners that have tried to go back to a bare finish and found it to be next to impossiable after some etching techniques are used.

For prep, I have heard of some citrus based products (I think one is called 'ZEP') that pull the oxidation out without etching. I have yet to try these, but it certainly is on my 'to try' list.

Try polishing a piece of etched alluminum and a piece of untouched alluminum. It does make a difference.

Lets not wander too far off topic into uncharted territory. Painting is way too technical of a topic with many opinions to be covered in this forum.

Suffice it to say if you ever conceive of polishing your a/c be carefull in your planning for painting. This is of particular importance in a proper restoration, were we try to preserve as much as possable and not make irreversable changes that we may regret in the years to come.

Dave

Hi Davem,
Good past, but may I disagree? I have no intention of polishing any aeroplane myself - looks short on thrills, frankly, but this is one of the more interesting discussions I've listened in on - and it's not subject to the publishing caviats that mags and ads suffer from.

Cheers!