Warbird Information Exchange

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I found this photo among several from my late Grandfather, who was a bombardier with the 96th BG from Feb-May 1945. I am familiar with most of the equipment in this photo (Norden, chin turret controls, late-style defroster), but what's that silver box with the gauge on it on the left? It appears that its attached right in front of the bombardier's control panel. What say you? Any ideas? Can anyone identify any of the other gear in the photo that may not be quite as obvious? I've never seen anything like it before. Any help would be much appreciated.

0568.L.031 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

- Dennis S.
Thornton, CO USA

_________________
"We must bond together and fight as brothers or we will all die as fools."

It looks like a pressure gage. Radar pressurization?

I was going to say either an Altimeter, Artificial Horizon or Remote Compass with that adjustment knob.

Close look at the photo on a big monitor and it appears to be a standard 8 day clock. I guess the rotated mounting is for ease of using the start/stop timer function when the bombadier is on the sight.

It looks like a flux gate compass repeater indicator but it’s mounted upside down. The adjustment knob moved the card on the face of the instrument which can be seen when you zoom in.

There are very interesting mods to the Norden bombsight too which may have been a part of the compass indicator and it’s use on the bomb run. The one mod on the sight head looks like an early form of the reflex sight but with fixed angle crosshairs. Fixed angle Bombing was often used for low level work.

Other things on the sight head are an electrical attachment on the lower part of the head and something unusual on the top of the speed drum.

It’s a very cool and rare photo showing the Norden with unusual attachments and mods. You rarely see shots like this presumably because of the restricted nature of the Norden.

Are there other interior or Norden shots? I’d love to learn more about your Grandfather

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

I noticed 3 things in this photo that I think are cool. First it's an in air shot, second the paper clip attached to our mystery box with gauge and the unusually shaped object just to the left of the Norden, shaped like a hatchet of some kind. What in the world is that?

Sorry, double post.

It's an air vent for defrosting the nose bowl similar to the one above the bombsight.

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Taigh, you are most likely spot on. My Grandfather went to Snetterton in February of 1945, and by then, the 96th had begun some low-level (12,000 ft.) bombing runs on what were considered "Defenseless" targets. Those crosshairs are probably associated with that work for better accuracy at that level.

As for the gauge on the left, I thought that maybe it was associated with my Grandfather's brief time on a B-17G with the 96th that carried Eagle Radar. Looks like perhaps this may be a shot from inside his usual B-17, 44-6888 (AW-R). I only have photos of her on the ground after a landing accident on 11 May 1945, and if this in fact is a shot of her in the air (maybe even on the same day), that would be a new one for me.

As for other photos of the nose equipment, that's the only one I have. I have a few others showing some terrain outside, but nothing else showing any equipment or otherwise. Sorry folks.

- Dennis S.
Thornton, CO USA

_________________
"We must bond together and fight as brothers or we will all die as fools."

I wonder if he just wanted the remote compass indicator closer to his field of view when on the run. Look at the misdrilled instrument screw holes.

Another idea comes to mind with the crosshair mod on the sight head. Maybe this was a simple way to drop POW supplies? Easier to look through the crosshairs if they are external which would also explain the relocation of the remote compass.

I looked up the history of the 96th BG and they mentioned dropping supplies to the Maquis. Not sure what this is but it could be what was going on with this sight and mission. We should look up his specific missions to see what all he was involved with to shed more light on this subject.

Good stuff

I just saw your post as I was hitting submit. 12,000 feet is still pretty high and well within the parameters of the norden. Low level like what i am talking about would be 3000 feet or less like the altitude that is shown in the photo. I would bet that if they were dropping supplies it would have been 3000 feet or less as a guess. Lower the better so the winds do not affect them as much.

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

May we please see them?

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Taigh, I think you are absolutely right. Right after VE Day (May 8, 1945), I know my Grandfather and his crew participated in several food drops, to include May 11, 1945 when the plane was lost upon returning to Snetterton Heath. All crew survived the crash and non were injured, but the plane was salvaged as a result.

In a more interesting note, I recently found out that my Grandfather designed nose art for the plane that was only ever applied with pencil/chalk to the side of the bird. The war ended, and the plane was lost before it could fully be painted. I have pictures of the original artwork. She was to be called "Ragged But Right", with two sultry women's legs crossed in a sort of 'X' pattern. The plane did carry some impromptu nose art... the last three of the serial, 888, were carried on the nose as a buzz number. The crew added ears, tails, and colored in the bottom portion of the 8 to resemble three cats on either side of the nose.

Here's a few photos of her crash. Of interesting note here is that the plane was not under power when she went off the runway... all of the prop blades are straight, aside from those that were bent when the plane went onto her belly. Additionally, she has two different styles of tires fitted; one diamond tread, one block tread. I'll throw in a photo of my Grandfather, Joseph Denver, standing aside the wreck, with a look on his face that conveys his feelings about just crash landing after the war's end:


0568.L.058 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.055 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.051 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.035 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.034 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.033 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0554.L.005 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr

0568.L.010 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr


- Dennis S.
Thornton, CO USA

_________________
"We must bond together and fight as brothers or we will all die as fools."

Marvelous collection. Thank you sharing them.

Here is the landing accident report reference, copy is available from AAIR or AFRA, there may be more photos in the accident report

450510 B-17G 44-6888 337BS 96BG 138 8 LAC 4 Loveless, Harry L ENG Snetterton Heath/Sta 138

of note the same B-17G was involved in an earlier ground accident at Love Field

441212 B-17G 44-6888 6FrG Long Beach AAF 2AF GAC [parked aircraft] USA TX Love Fld (Dallas)

Thanks for posting your photos

Fantastic photos, Dennis - his expression says it all! Thanks for sharing them.

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)