Stearman vs PT-22

[ChesapeakeWarbirds]

I was wondering if anyone can clue me in on their flight experience of flying a Stearman vs the Ryan PT-22 ?

Most people prefer the Stearman over the PT-22, because it's more robust, better engines, can be "goofed" around in a lot more.

The Stearman seems to be a more exciting plane to fly overall and the PT-22 seems under powered vs the Stearman as well.

Which do you prefer (Only interested in the Stearman & PT-22)

[TheBoy]

I'll preface that I'm biased.

I have about 600 hours in Stearmans (of various configurations) and only about 5 hours in a PT-22. A brief list of thoughts:

PT-22:
PROS:
- Very nice flying airplane, the control harmony and effectiveness is wonderful.
- The landing gear is awesome, making smooth touchdowns effortless.
- There is very little wind in the cockpit (the rear at least).
- Docile runway handling.
- Disassembly for inspection is very simple and easy.
- Smaller, lighter airplane that is easier to hanger and handle by yourself.

CONS:
- The Kinner is getting more and more difficult to support.
- It is under-powered, more-so than a stock Stearman.
- The cockpit is small.
- There is virtually no baggage space.
- The stall/snap/spin characteristics***

PT-17 (or Stearman in general)
PROS:
- Very well supported
- Many engine options/configurations, all well supported
- Nice flying airplane, well harmonized
- Roomy cockpit, more space to cram "stuff" (jackets, maps, water bottles...)
- Easy to maintain

CONS:
- Heavy control forces at larger deflections (doing aerobatics and such)
- Less directionally stable on the ground (still not bad, don't listen to the hype).
- Bigger, heavier airplane - difficult to move by yourself.
- More cockpit wind, especially in the back seat.


Overall, I obviously prefer a Stearman. The time I got to spend playing with a PT-22 was enjoyable and I came away with a favorable opinion of the airplane. I did spend some time (up high) trying to aggravate the PT-22 to experience the wicked stall/snap/spin that everyone talks about. In what I did, I never got the airplane to bite. I always handled it with great respect though as some extremely experienced aviators has been killed in them when they let their guard down and stop showing the airplane respect. That goes for any airplane though so I don't put a HUGE emphasis on it in the PT-22.

If you have a specific question let me know and I'll do my best to answer. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with time in both who can give some great insights.

[ChesapeakeWarbirds]

What a great response, I really appreciate it.

[Matt Gunsch]

The stall spin stall trait of the PT-22 is what got Jim Orten (AZ Wing CAF) and Jim Malone (Planes of Fame) when they were flying Orten's PT-22. Here were 2 guys who grew up flying warbirds and both had flown unlimited at Reno, yet it was a little PT-22 that took them down.

[Invader26]

Well my late father-in-law survived the PT-22 having never flown an aircraft before during his primary training in King City....

[marine air]

I voted for the PT-22 because it needed a friend. There are two bad things about the PT-22. If you inadvertently spin it at insufficient altitude, you are dead. Second, many have been adapted with a valve to be able to turn the oil off after being parked to avoid oil filling the lower cylinders. If missed on pre-flight, the engine will die of oil starvation shortly after takeoff. Third, it has a hellish sink rate due to all the parasite drag and the dumb sweep of the wing. I mean , it has the glide ratio of a brick. A lot of people have gotten hurt from impacting the ground very hard during a forced landing.
Pros, it isn’t underpowered. It will outclimb a 220 Stearman or Chipmunk. Very light on the controls and it goes where you point it. It has a unique sound . It has lots of beautiful polished areas. It doesn’t have a second wing without ailerons fighting you on turns and landings. The windshield does it’s job very well in keeping the prop wash out of your face. The cockpit fits like a glove , like the Chipmunk and it’s easy to pretend your sitting in a fighter.. It’s more affordable than a Stearman. It has a trailing link landing gear like modern day Falcon and Citation jets. It has a shorter takeoff and landing and will outclimb a 220 Stearman.

[JohnB]

Like Invader26, my father did his primary trading in a PT-22, at the school in Hemet, Caif. He never said anything bad about the type, and ended up as a USAF Command Pilot with 5000 hours in ME types.

I'm not sure the USAAC would pick a trainer with that bad of stall characteristics, (this based on reading about other types considered...and rejected...for training for various flaws) so perhaps this is a case of hangar tales exaggerating the trait?
Also, if guys missed the oil switch during preflight, that's THEIR bad, not the basic design of the aircraft.

And did the wing sweep really impact its stall behavior? I only ask because several trainers; Standard J-1, Tiger Moth, Stampe all have some degree of sweep...at least in their top wing.

The military would be looking for a type that demands some attention and skill, but not too lethal.

I'd be interested to learn more about the type. Anyone have a book or monograph to recommend?

Last edited by JohnB on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[sledge39]

.
Flown by Cliff Winters, early 1960's. Here's what became of it...

Art Scholl in 'Sports Illustrated' October 04, 1965

".. Cliff Winters. He was a great stunt flyer, the best. He had this act where he comes out of a barricade of fire and does a snap roll.

In 1962 at Chino somebody said it would really be spectacular if he could do a double snap roll when he came out of the flames.

He said no, it was impossible. Not enough speed.

But then he got up there, and when he came through that last barricade he tried it. He tried the double snap roll... And he crashed."

image source: snappygoat public domain images


.

[Kenny Chapman]

Growing up in Hemet I had always wanted a PT-22. I was finally able to acquire one 11 years ago. I was very concerned about all the stories about the accident rate. My instructor had taught in Ryans at Mather, then Morton (Blythe) and eventually ended up at Hemet. (He may have even flown my airplane.) Not knowing at the time (1968) he taught in Cessnas and Pipers the same way he taught in the Ryans. When I bought mine I swear I could hear him in the front seat.
If the airplane is flown correctly it is a kiddie car. Turn your back on it and it will bite you hard. Don't stop flying it till its in the chocks. I have a minimal amount of Stearman time but I really like them. I too voted for the Ryan because 1; it needs friends and 2; I own one now so I'm biased.

[Chris Brame]

While we're at it, how does the Ryan STA compare to the PT-22 in performance?

[Lon Moer]

I voted the Ryan, but it's out of biased nostalgia.
I've never been in the Stearman, but I did learn to fly in the Ryan way back in the '70s.