Sea Fury, PW R-2800 Count...

[Triplane102]

So, I've seen in the past years that Some Sea Fury owners are going for the PW R-2800 instead of the W 3350. As far as I know we have:
Sanders Argonaut
Thibodeau (ex Chuck Greenhill ) T.20 ,( NOT the one that was loss at Breckenridge Tx. )
The Fighter Collection T-20 ( also, another Chuck Greenhill's, first T.20 ) also having 2 ( one more T.20 ) more Sea Furys restored at Cal. Aerofab (?) Maybe both with 2800s (?)
Christophe Jacquard
That, so far, would be 4 for sure, and maybe 2 more.
Could be a future trend ?

Last edited by Triplane102 on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[The Ripper]

The TFC Sea Fury currently in California is being equipped with a R2800, I believe.

[AG pilot]

To go to that much expense of changing from one to another, there must be some advantage to the R2800 over the R3350, or something undesirable about the R3350. What are the reasons for this trend?

[Mike]

Christophe Jaquard's in France

I believe Sanders are building another one up for a customer

[Thomas_Mac]

To go to that much expense of changing from one to another, there must be some advantage to the R2800 over the R3350, or something undesirable about the R3350. What are the reasons for this trend?

Both these links have some good insight into the 2800 conversion and the reasoning behind it.

http://www.sandersaeronautics.com/resto ... -r2800.asp

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/ ... aut-2.aspx

[AG pilot]

Great articles and photos! It does look like a huge task to re-engine. Whew!

[Warbird Kid]

Great articles and photos! It does look like a huge task to re-engine. Whew!

Now if only they could strap some P&W R-1340s to some Bolingbroke or Blenheim projects.

[Left Seat]

To go to that much expense of changing from one to another, there must be some advantage to the R2800 over the R3350, or something undesirable about the R3350. What are the reasons for this trend?

While not a race plane, the Martin RJM Mars was originally spec'ed with R3350s and delivered with R4360s (look at the issues FiFi & Doc have had with those).
Source:
https://www.b29doc.com/first-new-engine-arrives-for-doc/
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=64579

The two remaining Mars (Hawaii & Philippine) were re-engined years ago with R3350s.
Source:
http://www.historynet.com/the-mighty-mars-jrm.htm

Last edited by Left Seat on Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Rick65]

I have often wondered how some operators can keep the idiosyncratic sleeve valve Centaurus engined Furys going while others have turned to one of the most reliable large radials the R-2800.
Can Furys operate on UK licence with the R-2800 or R-3350?

Off topic, I asked the question about the reliability of the Mars R-3350 engines on an old thread about the Mars.
The response was that the Mars engines were later engines than those used on the B-29, were more closely related to those used on the Constellation and were much more reliable. The operator also received a large stock of R-3350 engines parts and documentation with the sea planes.
I haven't read anywhere that they were re-engined with R-2800s, any links?
I understood that the Carolina Mars only had R-4360s but the others had R-3350s for their entire career?

I am still waiting for a Tempest II with a R-2800.

[davem]

The owner of the Martin Mars seems to think they still have 3350's:

http://www.martinmars.com/pdf/martin_mars_brochure.pdf

[FuryFB11]

I have often wondered how some operators can keep the idiosyncratic sleeve valve Centaurus engined Furys going while others have turned to one of the most reliable large radials the R-2800.
Can Furys operate on UK licence with the R-2800 or R-3350?

I believe the key is to keep them running regularly (about once every two weeks or so) and to drain the engine of any water/moisture that builds up once it has been run to prevent any corrosion of the sleeve's/ cylinders.

The Fighter Collection's Ex- T.20 WG655 is the first P&W converted Fury to fly on a UK registration. Though i understand there is a lot of paperwork for this process.

[Triplane102]

Now if only they could strap some P&W R-1340s to some Bolingbroke or Blenheim projects. [/quote]
OR !, Dare I Say,... a "Lysander' !!

[Triplane102]

Christophe Jaquard's in France

I believe Sanders are building another one up for a customer

Thanks Mike !, I forgot about Jaquard's

[Blackbirdfan]

To go to that much expense of changing from one to another, there must be some advantage to the R2800 over the R3350, or something undesirable about the R3350. What are the reasons for this trend?

While not a race plane, the Martin RJM Mars was originally spec'ed with R3350s and delivered with R4360s (look at the issues FiFi & Doc have had with those).

The two remaining Mars (Hawaii & Philippine) were re-engined years ago with R2800s. They could have been re-engined with the R3350, but the quantity of spares, fuel economy, & reliability won out.

That being, the R2800 is 600 pounds lighter than the R3350, but has 400 horsepower less.

Darn scary, that cost of overhauling "round" engines!

With regards to the Mars using R2800s, that is a big no. They both run R3350-24Ws. Caroline Mars was the only one with R4360s. The late 3350s were actually decent engines when not used in race applications. Skyraiders had good success with them as did the P2V Neptunes. In the case of the Martin Mars however, the R2800 doesn't have the power needed. Coulson runs the 3350s pretty easy to get longer life out of the engines.

Will

[Dave Hadfield]

You never need full power in the fighters during normal operations for heritage flying. The airplanes are much lighter, and get off the ground quickly and climb very well at reduced settings. In fact, the only time I've been to full power in the fighters I've flown is when I've been directed-to by a mechanic, after servicing.

I flew the Spitfire 60 hours this summer. I could have gone to 11 lbs of boost. I never got beyond 8. Not once.

So, reducing the max power available in a Sea Fury from the 3350 to the 2800 is not a factor. You never go there anyway.

What does matter is spare parts and reliability. Those become much better with the R-2800.

I spoke to one of the Saunders' pilots a few years ago at work and asked him about this. He said the same thing, plus the lighter weight of the R-2800 compensated for the reduced power.

The R-2800 is also 4" slimmer, which helps.

However, having said all that, if you have a 3350 that is running well and not giving problems, I'd leave it alone, and fly it regularly. In commercial service, if the overhaul was good, they sometimes went a long time.

Dave