Warbird Information Exchange

Per J Baugher: "The Republic XP-47J Thunderbolt 43-46952. It was a lighter-weight version of the Thunderbolt for improved performance. A second prototype, subsequently cancelled, would have had the bubble canopy and a contra-rotating propeller. 43-46952 (MSN J1) First flight 26 Nov 1943; “Superbolt” - artwork of Superman on the nose holding a lightning bolt; On August 4, 1944, it attained a speed of 505 mph in level fight, becoming the first propeller-driven fighter to exceed 500 mph; This was an unofficial world speed record for piston-engine aircraft, held until broken in 1989 by a souped-up, larger engine version of the Grumman Bearcat."

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

This was news to me. Was this "unofficial" only because the French-based Fédération aéronautique internationale (FAI) was German-occupied at the time?

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Kevin McCartney

I believe the write-up is incorrect.
The modified Bearcat (presumably Greenemyer's Conquest 1) broke the record in 1969...not 89.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

No, I think it was an entirely unofficial company publicity stunt with none of the controlled parameters of a real record attempt. This aircraft never held nor earned the record, and only the P-47 loyalists think it did.

August

Would there have been an element of propaganda in touting the breaking of the German record set in '39 by the Me 209?

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Some of you are confusing "top speed" and the "closed-course low-altitude" record.

The top speed record was broken in 1989 by Lyle Shelton in the F8F "Rare Bear".

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remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

505 in 1944? I can believe it.

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

It is written that the Commonwealth Aircraft Corp CA-15 (Kangaroo) achieved 502.2 mph at 4000ft over Melbourne, Australia on 25th May 1948...

It's highest calibrated speed was 448mph at 26,400ft...

*It was originally to have the R-2800 like the P-47 but unavailability caused CAC to use the Rolls-Royce Griffon

That P-47 however looks like a heavyweight prize fighter!

The record holders according to the FAI...

Replica R-1 at Bradley
IMG_0466 by jim harley, on Flickr

The 209 as it sits in Krakow
209 by jim harley, on Flickr

Conquest 1
DG by jim harley, on Flickr

The Baron...trivia you guys probably know...Ed Browning, who funded the RB-51 was heir to the Browning Machine gun fortune
DSC_0194 by jim harley, on Flickr

Rare Bear
RareBear by jim harley, on Flickr

Voodoo, I haven't had a chance to photograph it in it's current scheme
voodoo by jim harley, on Flickr

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www.spiritof44.com

Again, these are all the closed course low altitude record, not the top speed record.

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remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

Agreed. I'm seeing the same differences listed elsewhere.

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Jim, almost all your planes are missing something vital. Good timing!

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Rob C

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. “

– Michael Crichton

You sure? I believe all of these (with possible exception of the Gee Bee) were all holders of the fastest piston engine aircraft in the world, period, at one time or another. No?

The Me-209 is the longest holder of the piston world air speed record, however it is perhaps more historic that it was the last piston powered aircraft to hold the absolute world air speed record. The Me-209 held the record for just over 18 months, and unofficially lost it to another Messerschmitt aircraft, the fourth Me-163 prototype, at over 624 mph in 1941! The true record went to a Meteor in 1945...

The piston speed record was held by the Me-209 from 1939 to 1969. Several contenders said that “their”aircraft “hit somewhere over 500 mph” for many years. The P-47J, N13Y, MB-5, XR-12 and others attempted to push on D-INJR’s record formally or informally. In 1981 Dave Zeuschel tried with Jeannie and didn’t quite get there. In retrospect after his attempt Dave stated that Jeannie was in the best of race condition, and in great weather conditions went approximately 470 mph. He felt none of those other piston guys were ever that close to 500 mph....

However the longest piston speed record set officially is still held by the Incomparable Macchi MC-72 at 407? Mph....on floats. She has never been beat.

that made me lol...engines. I haven't had a chance to get to Reno for the races...always saw them in the off season. I included FAI since it was a measured speed. I have no doubt that this P-47 was capable of 505, but it wasn't measured by a governing body...who said it went 504-5...the pilot?, people with stop watches? I believe it should be called the unofficial speed record, BUT, considering it was a time of war, it wasn't properly measured, and Republic was defending it's product against the Mustang.

If you look at Conquest 1, a highly, highly stripped down Bearcat with many speed mods goes 469, or the RB-51 going 499, how can the P-47 go 505 without going up to 30,000ft and diving into the higher speed ranges? The frontal drag is horrendous, not to mention pushing all that air through the turbo. Again, no doubt it went that fast, but not official. I believe the F-86 went Mach 1 first, but how embarrassing would it be for the Air Force to have a production airplane exceed mach 1 in the midst of a celebrated test program and a huge investment.

my .02

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www.spiritof44.com