Warbird Information Exchange

As much as I'd like to see a Keystone (and the NMUSAF is supposed to have recovered two crash sites in Nicaragua about 40 years ago, plus there's an upper wing center section out on the range at Edwards AFB), they probably figure the MB-2 replica they have on display is close enough.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Interesting re the Nicaragua recoveries. And how the heck did an upper wing section wind up at Edwards?

Any sources on those two (Nicaragua/Edwards)?

Yet the P-82 was not in WWII. First flight was 15 June 1945 - so your point in mute.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

The book Veteran and Vintage Aircraft, from the early '70s edition The planes were LB-7s 29-13 and 29-16. I posted about it ten years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32915&p=328690

The wing section (sometimes referred to as "the bedsprings" or "bedstead"), IIRC, is the remains of a Keystone on a prewar target range.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Didn't the war end after 15 June 1945? "is moot."

I'm puzzled by your response...did you read the entire post?

I thought it was abundantly clear I was referring to the P-61 (which was in WWII) in response to the quoted post wondering why the Black Widow isn't better appreciated. Nothing to do with the P/F-82.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

[/quote]but...
Say you're at a party and someone heard of your interest in WWII aviation and asks you your favorite (or even half dozen) American fighters of the war, most of the time, a P-61 won't be on the tip of your tongue.
Yes, it's a neat plane, but largely unheralded.[/quote]

Yet the P-82 was not in WWII. First flight was 15 June 1945 - so your point in mute.[/quote]

Didn't the war end after 15 June 1945? "is moot." [/quote]

I doubt that they became operational by August 1945.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

I just love when these conversations turn into personal pissing contests about who can be 'more right' about their semantics.

Congratulations, fellas...you just beat two trees.

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

Speedy, leave me out of this...
All I said was the P-61 isn't on most people's lists of WWII "greats".

Disagree if you like, but I'm puzzled by his comment.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

JohnB has a good point. While talking with a guest at VFM not long ago about ongoing restoration projects, I mentioned MAAM's P-61 project, and the guest said, "Don't you mean 'P-51'?" The Black Widow is, unfortunately, not well known among the general public. But I think it's cool. . .

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Lake Dallas, Republic of Texas

Ahh but mystery, intrigue and rarity are qualities that the P-61 has in spades.

Using your criteria of "favorite" or half dozen American fighters the list may be something like list: P-51, Corsair, P-38, P-47, P-40, Wildcat. A few have soft spots for the P-39, P-61 and Hellcat, but agree they would not make the "top half dozen" lists for many Americans.

How many P-51/47/39/40 Corsairs and Wildcats do we have in museums, flyers and projects? Quite a few. For many the P-51 may be their iconic "favorite" US fighter, but frankly they are quite common, much like the Ford Mustang and Corvette are many Americans favorite sports cars, but way too common for me. I will go out of my way to see something very rare, I won't do the same for a Mustang. I will drive for hours to see a type I have never seen.

The rarity and intrigue of the P-61 is high. Arguably the best named aircraft of the war, a mysterious mission, a distinct layout, a giant turret (some models), black paint, only 4 survivors, and not having a flyer since the 1960's is indeed exciting.

This is well put and is basically what my initial post was alluding to. The P-51 and Corsair are more or less the favorites of WW2 to the broader audience (moreso the P-51). That is the reason the XP-82 has the appeal that is does. It’s easy to look at one and think WOW this is TWO Mustangs together! Even though that’s far from the truth, it has that “ok I understand what this is now” factor. The P-61 will always be that unknown type even when it’s flying. The usual follow up question after seeing the XP-82 is “what is this even for?” and it has an easy to follow reasoning for its existence, another thing that appeals to the general airshow-goer, etc.