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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:30 pm 
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A Curtiss SB2C-4E Helldiver of Bombing Group VB-12 USS Randolph CV-15 after being forced down and captured by the Japanese. I'm assuming this photo was taken somewhere in Japan as opposed to perhaps Okinawa or China. Looks like lots of interest going on. Perhaps J. MacDonald will stop by with the facts of who the crew was and the details of how, when and where.

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Curtiss SB2C-4E Helldiver #9 behind Helldiver #15 of VB-12 waiting to be launched from the USS Randolph CV-15 on perhaps it's last mission over Japan c 1945.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:47 am 
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I believe this could possibly be SB2C-4E BuNo 20308. It was hit by AA on 16 Feb 45, while attacking an aircraft assembly plant & made a controlled water landing in Kasumigaura Lake. Pilot Ens. Charles H. Brown landed in the "narrow neck" of the lake. Brown and his radioman ARM3c J.D. (Jack) Richards were captured by local fishermen and were sent to Ofuna POW camp. They were both repatriated after the war.

One of the reasons I feel that this is the same plane in the picture is that all of the other VB-12 SB2Cs crashed or ditched in the ocean. Assuming that Kasumigaura Lake was fairly shallow it would have been feasible for the Japanese to raise the plane. Kasumigaura airfield was close by and could have supplied the manpower. The background of the photo looks to me to be an expanse of water with trees on the far shore. Or...what looks like water in the background could be an airfield. A likely scenario for me would be that the SB2C was raised from the lake and taken to Kasumigaura airfield where the photo was taken shortly after the plane arrived.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:16 am 
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Another thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that 20308 ditched due to a fire in the engine. In the photo the damage to the lower cowling looks like it could have been caused by ditching, the damage to the top of the cowling looks to me like it was caused by fire.

Anybody else have any thoughts?
Mac

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:46 am 
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Pretty stout plane for the wings to fold after a ditching.I'm impressed.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:22 pm 
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The max depth of Lakes Kasumigaura is about 21 feet, and its average depth about 12 feet so retrieval of the SB2C wouldn't be much of a challenge even in a worst case.

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"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
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"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:47 am 
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I shudda thought about googling info on the lake. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:00 pm 
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It's a water lizard/Navy thang Jim. :D
James

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"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
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Last edited by airnutz on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:00 pm 
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Ooops...doppel post

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"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:45 am 
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That explains it. I can't even swim & I was AF. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:46 am 
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Jim MacDonald wrote:
I can't even swim

Navy boot camp fixes that...everybody goes for eval and training if you don't swim.
Which brings up a point of untrivial trivia. In the recent past some folks saved themselves when lost at sea by turning their pants into flotation devices. You tie knots into the end of both legs and scoop air into the crotch and position yerself laying or reclining into the crotch with the inflated legs on either side of your torso looking like rabbit ears. The press keeps reporting it's a Navy SEAL trick...it's actually a Navy and Coastie Basic Training trick. Sooo..if you ever find yerself out in the open water without a boat...or an airplane...or anything... just don't ferget yer pants!! :lol:

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:50 am 
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But if you're just wearing shorts or a pair of swim trunks...you're screwed.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:15 am 
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Jim MacDonald wrote:
But if you're just wearing shorts or a pair of swim trunks...you're screwed.

Mac

Pray for a generous redhead floating by on a door...an ungenerous ginger unwilling to share doorspace is referred to as getting "Jacked"...then your SOL :shock:

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 pm 
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airnutz wrote:
Jim MacDonald wrote:
I can't even swim

Navy boot camp fixes that...everybody goes for eval and training if you don't swim.
Which brings up a point of untrivial trivia. In the recent past some folks saved themselves when lost at sea by turning their pants into flotation devices. You tie knots into the end of both legs and scoop air into the crotch and position yerself laying or reclining into the crotch with the inflated legs on either side of your torso looking like rabbit ears. The press keeps reporting it's a Navy SEAL trick...it's actually a Navy and Coastie Basic Training trick. Sooo..if you ever find yerself out in the open water without a boat...or an airplane...or anything... just don't ferget yer pants!! :lol:

A Navy SEAL trick?? ....I learned that one in Boy Scouts! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:24 am 
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Lon Moer wrote:
airnutz wrote:
Jim MacDonald wrote:
I can't even swim

Navy boot camp fixes that...everybody goes for eval and training if you don't swim.
Which brings up a point of untrivial trivia. In the recent past some folks saved themselves when lost at sea by turning their pants into flotation devices. You tie knots into the end of both legs and scoop air into the crotch and position yerself laying or reclining into the crotch with the inflated legs on either side of your torso looking like rabbit ears. The press keeps reporting it's a Navy SEAL trick...it's actually a Navy and Coastie Basic Training trick. Sooo..if you ever find yerself out in the open water without a boat...or an airplane...or anything... just don't ferget yer pants!! :lol:

A Navy SEAL trick?? ....I learned that one in Boy Scouts! :lol:

:shock: Wellll crap...that means I forgot something else in my old age, 'cause I was a Boy Scout! :roll:

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:24 pm 
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One can do the same thing with a t-shirt or a long sleeve shirt.

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