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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:12 am 
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In the US?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:10 am 
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I think this answer is no....

Link to US Forest Service is below.

https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fire/planes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:15 am 
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menards wrote:
I think this answer is no....

Link to US Forest Service is below.

https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fire/planes

The P2V is, though, right? It's listed there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:26 am 
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There are CL-215s still flying, although the 217 turboprop has mostly replaced them.

Not sure about the USA.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:28 am 
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RyanShort1 wrote:
menards wrote:
I think this answer is no....

Link to US Forest Service is below.

https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fire/planes

The P2V is, though, right? It's listed there.



No, that list is out of date. Neptune Aviation retired the last Neptunes in 2018.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:28 am 
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RyanShort1 wrote:
menards wrote:
I think this answer is no....

Link to US Forest Service is below.

https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fire/planes

The P2V is, though, right? It's listed there.


2018 was the last year for the Neptunes as the Forest Service said they would not renew any contracts for them. The operators knew it was coming and it meant retirement.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:35 am 
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Dave Hadfield wrote:
There are CL-215s still flying, although the 217 turboprop has mostly replaced them.

Not sure about the USA.


I believe the turboprop versions are either re-engined CL-215T's or new build CL-415's?

What about the DC-6's / 7's? Larry? Larry?

C2j


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:19 am 
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Aero Air (Erickson Aero Tanker) has another year, maybe two on it’s contract with the ODF (Oregon Department of Forestry) at Medford with DC-7 Tanker 62 (N401US). It is only a 75 day contract, so they normally wait until mid-July to begin standby at Medford. I would guess that 62 will be on duty in Medford around July 15th.

DC-7B Tanker 60 (N838D) is also available for “Call When Needed” use by the ODF. Both airplanes have flown a number of hours for crew training and check rides, most of which took place a few weeks ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:00 pm 
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So is the reason the contracts are stopped, to eliminate piston powered planes? That is what it seems.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Just "spitballing" here but it may also be the general age of piston engined aircraft. I know that CDF completed its change over to turbo prop S-2T's in 2005 and I recall seeing the first example about 1992.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:21 pm 
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There is a page on wiki about the fire bomber crashes of 2002 and timeline immediately following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Unit ... er_crashes

"Following the two crashes, the USFS and the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) jointly established an independent blue ribbon panel "to investigate issues associated with aerial wild land firefighting in the United States. In March, 2003, the panel released its report...

"The Report identified various concerns about aircraft safety, including the airworthiness of aircraft that were operating outside of their original intended design and the appropriate levels of maintenance and training to ensure safe operations. The report also identified a lack of training in contemporary aviation management areas that has contributed to an unacceptable accident rate"

As a result of the panel's recommendations, the USFS and BLM declined to renew the leases on nine C-130A and PB4Y-2 airtankers, and ordered the 33 remaining large airtankers to undergo an improved inspection program before they returned to active service. The agencies contracted with the Sandia National Laboratories to analyze the safety of continuing use of five types of airtankers – the Douglas DC-4, Douglas DC-6, Douglas DC-7, Lockheed P-3 Orion and Lockheed P-2 Neptune. In addition, 11 of 19 Beechcraft 58P Baron leadplanes were also retired, as they had exceeded the 6,000 flight hour airframe safety limit. To further reduce the risk to the fleet, the agencies directed their field managers to use airtankers primarily for initial attack only.[1]

Almost two years after the Summer 2002 crashes and as a direct result of the ensuing investigations, on May 10, 2004, the Forest Service abruptly terminated the contracts for the entire large tanker fleet. USFS Chief Dale Bosworth stated, "Safety is a core value of the firefighting community, and it is non-negotiable. To continue to use these contract large airtankers when no mechanism exists to guarantee their airworthiness presents an unacceptable level of risk to the aviators, the firefighters on the ground and the communities we serve."[18] The decision affected tanker contracts issued by both the USFS and BLM."


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:22 pm 
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Wow, a DC-7!
That's a surprise considering DC-6s seem to be preferable to most operators.

I would agree there might be some CL-215s around, but the local operator here has 415s and AVRO (or whatever they're calling them this week :)) 146s.

The nearby base that had a PBY (the one wrecked during making of a film) now hosts Minnesota-based Firecats on floats.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:38 am 
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Quite right, CL-215T or 415. Brain fart.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Are the two surviving Martin Mars, retired?

I know one was damaged at Oshkosh.

Saludos,


Tulio

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:03 am 
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