Warbird Information Exchange

Most all had some use in WW2, and even after for other military purposes. Some used in the Vietnam days too.
It would be nice to see more here about them.

Yup, thats why I try and cover the DC-3s in the registry. at least those impressed into military service.
C-54s as well.

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Brief list of some US types with military versions:
Douglas DC-3 = C-49 (with Mil. derivatives C-47 and C-53)
Douglas DC-4 = C-54
Douglas DC-6 = C-118
Boeing 377 = C-97
Convair twins = C-131
Lockheed Lodestar = C-60
Lockheed Connie = C-69 and C-121
Lockheed Electra = basis for P-3
Beech 18 = C-45

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Lake Dallas, Republic of Texas

Without intending to be contentious: did any L188s serve with any military force, and if so in what capacity?

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Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22

I believe there were a couple L-188 fuselage (length only) “P-3” aircraft that wore the same Bureau numbers as “real” Orion’s in service. There is a photo of one on the Schiffer P-3 book. I am not sure if any of the black world Orion’s were L-188 length however I am not too clear on just how many secret CIA P-3’s were made. Consult the Schiffer book and the net, but it’s a hate to research subject. A pretty cool plane...

Wiki info

“EP-3B: Least known of all in the P-3 family. Three P-3As (BuNo 149669, BuNo 149673, and BuNo 149678) were obtained by the CIA from the US Navy under Project STSPIN in May 1963, as the replacement aircraft for CIA's own covert operation fleet of RB-69A/P2V-7Us. Converted by Aerosystems Division of LTV at Greenville, Texas, the three P-3As were simply known as "black" P-3As under Project Axial. Officially transferred from US Navy to CIA in June/July 1964. LTV Aerosystems converted the three aircraft to be both ELINT and COMINT platforms. The first of the three "black" P-3As arrived in Taiwan and were officially transferred to ROCAF's top secret "Black Bat" Squadron on June 22, 1966. Armed with 4 Sidewinder short range AAM missiles for self-defense, the three "black" P-3As flew peripheral missions along the China coast to collect SIGINT and air samples. When the project was terminated in January 1967, all three "black" P-3As were flown to NAS Alameda, California, for long term storage. Two of the three aircraft (BuNo 149669 and BuNo 149678) were converted into the only two EP-3Bs in existence by Lockheed at Burbank in September 1967, while the third aircraft (149673) was converted by Lockheed in 1969–1970 to serve as a development aircraft for various electronic programs. The two EP-3Bs, known as "Bat Rack", owing to their period of service with Taiwan's "Black Bat" Squadron, were issued to the US Navy's VQ-1 Squadron in 1969 and deployed to Da Nang, Vietnam. Later, the two EP-3Bs were converted to EP-3E ARIES, along with 10 EP-3As. The 12 EP-3Es retired in 1990s, when replaced by 12 EP-3E ARIES II.”

Quick correction here. The Boeing 377 and C-97 are not quite the same airplane. While the 377 is a derivative of the C-97/367, it is a much simpler design with about a 50% commonality between the airframes. I'm pretty sure that is part of what caused the Clay Lacy "faux Stratocruiser" modification program to stall and become much more expensive than originally thought.

Here's a good history on the airplanes and clarification of the timeline -

http://calclassic.proboards.com/thread/ ... al-history

Had lunch today with two Air Force retirees and we actually talked about the C-97 and B-377. Are there any true B-377 airliners in existence? I can’t remember seeing a recent picture of any. Where did they all go?

Boeing 247 = C-73. Used mostly to ferry aircrew, as it lacked a cargo door.
Boeing 307 Stratoliner = C-75. Used as VIP transport across the North Atlantic.
Boeing 314 Clipper = C-98. Long-range transport flying boat.

There must be many more, as it seems that the US gov't commandeered every usable transport during the war. And who could blame them?

"They also serve who only haul the freight"

Argentine Navy had some in the pax role with a few converted to a 'kind of' P-3 role and named (nicknamed?) Lockheed Electron. Saw one back in the '80s but I suspect they have long been replaced in service. To no great surprise there doesn't seem to be much on the net about them.

Anyone remember these?

Most DC-4s were ex C-54s, fairly few were built as civil ships.
The percentage of pure civil DC-3s was higher, but most survivors are ex C-47s.
DC-6/C-118s: While the majority were civil built, the surviving airworthy examples are likely ex C-118s because of their cargo doors.
Just because France used used DC-7s for their nuclear test programs doesn't make the type a "warbird"....IMHO.

But I wouldn't go quite as far as a blanket statement about all propliners. Sure, somewhere in the would almost everything became a military type, but let's not get too carried away by labelling them warbirds.
In fifty years will they be calling 737/T-43s, 727/C-22s, DC-10/KC-10s and DC-9/C-9s warbirds?

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

There is one true B377 known to still exist in Israel. There was a project a few years ago to try and get that aircraft and bring it back to the US to put back into the air, but it seems their funding never developed fully. Of the 56 377s built, 16 were totalled in wrecks (including 1 post-Guppy conversion and 2 during conversion), 3 other 377s or parts of 377s were used in Guppy conversions (the 4 Airbus Super Guppy Turbines were all C-97s). These conversions took 2-3 377s to complete, so that's where a chunk of them went. The rest were just scrapped. The airplane by almost every measure was a failure for Boeing, so there wasn't the intrinsic value and the expense of the airplanes to just exist was too much for anyone to really consider saving back in the 1960s and 1970s.

What happened to the KC-97 that Clay Lacy was restoring?

Sitting in Greybull, project apparently suspended about 6 months after it started.

There is a picture of a Boeing 377 Stratocruiser at the Israeli Air Force Museum on the Wikipedia page for that type. Picture is dated 2007, which I would guess is the plane mentioned above. Amazing if there are no other survivors for the airliner version of the C-97.

I used to fly L-188s for Zantop International Airlines under Air Force contract as part of the Logistic Airlift Command. I know that’s not exactly “in service”, but close to it. We all had secret clearances and flew between Air Force bases 365 days a year. LOGAIR flights (and Quick-Trans for the Navy) were the only flights that had traffic priority over AF One. However, we did retain our civilian livery.

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Project Cutlass

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