Warbird Information Exchange

Bit of engine trouble on Loch Ness today for the PBY

http://thisisflight.net/2020/10/17/cata ... -troubles/


I saw a video of it landing there on Twitter earlier today, no mention then of issues.

Phew! Glad all was OK.

According to the crew cheif, they actually tried taking-off from the loch on one engine with the U/S engine feathered. Im not an expert on twin engined aircraft operatons or flying boats, but that doesn't sound safe to me?!

A friend of mine said he saw a crew from a Canso (PBY) that had a starter crap out.
They carefully tied a rope from the good engine to the U/S one.
They then turned the starter on the good engine to get it to start the one that had a bad starter
Bush pilots can be pretty darn resouceful when push comes to shove.
As for a single engine takeoff, I don't think the PBY performs all that well on one engine.

Andy

Best wishes to everyone at Plane Sailing, I don't envy the engineering task of getting things fixed when on the water. As if things weren't bad enough, she was also hit by another boat after the RNLI towed her to a more sheltered spot, smashing one of the observation blisters and possibly doing other damage.

I was the crew chief on board. Here us a brief summary of what happened.

"Miss Pick Up has spent the past week carrying out filming, first for a US TV series at RAF Halton then on Loch Ness for a UK series. It has been a rewarding and successful experience and both TV companies have been delighted with the results. Unfortunately, after our last landing on Loch Ness yesterday afternoon, the starboard engine would not start and a failed starter motor was diagnosed. After assessing options, the Catalina was towed by an RNLI boat to a relatively sheltered bay on the Loch where she is now moored. Sadly, before the RNLI rescue, another substantial rib-type boat impacted the Catalina’s rear hull and smashed the blister transparency. A plan is now in place and our engineer Garry Short will travel to Scotland and replace the faulty starter and patch up the blister sufficient for a short ferry flight to Inverness airport where a further action plan will be put in place prior to a return to our base at Duxford."

It was felt to be very important to at least try and get the Catalina off the Loch as there are no slipways there and very few options for beaching. Two attempts were made by our two very experienced pilots to safely take off on the good engine. This was unsuccessful as insufficient speed could be attained and no further attempts were made. In the end, the lifeboat team who took us in tow were able to take us to a mooring buoy where, in darkness, we safely secured the aircraft. All focus is now on replacing the broken starter motor and effecting a temporary repair on the port blister to safely fly off the loch in the next few days and fly the short distance to Inverness Dalcross Airport. It was very unfortunate that a fairly simple mechanical failure was compounded by an over-enthusiastic boatman, not one of our team. But accidents happen. I hope this clarifies the position.

_________________
David Legg
Editor, The Catalina News
The Catalina Society
Author: Consolidated PBY Catalina - The Peacetime Record

Thank you for the follow-up David. I wish you guys the best getting the Catalina off of the lake in the near future.

Thank you David.
First hand accounts are most welcome and appreciated.
Wishing the best for you and your team.

Andy

I'm trying to understand how taking off single engine could be considered a safe or prudent option? Both the Vmc and safe single engine speeds are above the take off speed in water. This means that the aircraft would not be controllable just after liftoff from the water. Is there something I'm missing here?

A single engine takeoff in a Cat is nuts. I've flown the Cat and there is no approved procedure for this and the performance off the water requires a couple of good engines. By the way if by a miracle you got airborne and had an engine failure you're all probably pushing up daisies now.

Expediency and 'get-home-itis' in these situations can be the beginning of a bad outcome.

I am extremely shocked they tried this not once but twice to take off. Unless the Japanese are shooting at you there is absolutely no need to take this type of risk

_________________
" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Maybe there are a lot of Japanese soldiers hiding in the highlands of Inverness?

Just before the internet tries, convicts and hangs them.....

I think I would err on the side of the Pilots on this one.
As well meaning as the crew chief may be, he wasn't flying it, and he may have misinterpreted their actions and intent.
I would suggest until the operating crew specifically states that their intention was to attempt a take off on one engine, it didn't happen.

well looking at the pictures one prop is feathered.. there is no reason to feather a prop for trouble shooting or replacing a starter so I would think there is an ulterior motive..

having a little experience herding a PBY on one engine I couldn't imagine attempting it, unless it's a matter of life or death..

replacing a starter while standing on a sea stand isn't a lot of fun but it's not the end of the world.. especially when a wrench or nut goes "plunk" into the water to be gone forever.. now an engine or prop change using sea stands is another story..

I assume the aircraft is fully insured.. I somehow suspect if the underwriter was presented with a claim for any damage or loss of the airframe being caused by a single engine water takeoff "attempt" they would be very quick to send you a "claim denied" notification...

Thanks Lotus. Well stated.
All criticizing does, is encourage those with first hand knowledge, to not participate in the forum.
Appreciated.

Andy