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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:36 pm 
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What is the purpose of the white lines on the leading edge of the wing near the guns?
Attachment:
P-47 Wing Markings (Reduced).png
P-47 Wing Markings (Reduced).png [ 1.87 MiB | Viewed 3727 times ]

(Source: Preflight Study Manual for Civil Air Patrol Cadets (Headquarters AAF, Office of Flying Safety, n.d.) 3-7.)

The explanations I have come up with or heard so far is that they are either for boresighting the guns, measuring wind drift angle, or bomb aiming.

I know that the Ju 87 has dive lines painted on the pilot's canopy...
Image
(Source: War Thunder)

...the Il-2 has level bombing lines painted on the engine cowling...
Attachment:
post-19-0-68504000-1490948712 (Cropped).jpg
post-19-0-68504000-1490948712 (Cropped).jpg [ 291.97 KiB | Viewed 3727 times ]

(Source: IL2Sturmovik.com)

...and the B5N has similar lines on the tail as well as the nose.
Image
(Source: War Thunder Wiki)

Some P-47s apparently also had flap angle lines painted on the trailing edge of the wing, so maybe that's where the idea came from.
Attachment:
P47_1 (Reduced, Cropped).jpg
P47_1 (Reduced, Cropped).jpg [ 74.65 KiB | Viewed 3727 times ]

(Source: RCUniverse.com)

EDIT (22-04-05): It seems that the above picture may have been taken for use as a recognition slide, as a different picture of what appears to be the same P-47 can be found in a set digitized by the State Archives of North Carolina.

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Last edited by Noha307 on Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:11 am 
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these lines are for guns identification, they were on P47B number 7 up to 47 only. colors were white, yellow, red & green in add



Attachment:
gun ident stripes.jpg
gun ident stripes.jpg [ 176.96 KiB | Viewed 3548 times ]




"no step" on trailing edge and "no push" on trim tab are only on warbird, not on WW2 airplane


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:11 pm 
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waroff wrote:
these lines are for guns identification, they were on P47B number 7 up to 47 only. colors were white, yellow, red & green in add

Wow, that was a quick answer! Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:25 am 
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waroff wrote:
"no step" on trailing edge and "no push" on trim tab are only on warbird, not on WW2 airplane
I have a T-6 aileron tab that is stenciled with the Spanish equivalent of "No Push." While it may not have come from the North American Aviation (NAA) factory that way, it was clearly applied for military service. Or, it could have been stenciled in Spanish by NAA under a spare parts order.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:29 pm 
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Just thought I'd include a couple of pictures from Mark's recent thread that show both flap and sighting lines painted on a D3A recovered after the attack on Pearl Harbor:
Image
(Source: Flickr)
Image
(Source: Flickr)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:30 pm 
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I recently bought the book The Luftwaffe: A Photographic Record, 1919-1945 by Karl Ries and was reading through it when I came across a name for the lines on the Ju 87 cockpit windows. They're called "Prenzlau stripes" and are apparently named after a prewar training base.

It's worth noting that I found the name in a caption for a picture of an Hs 126B (see below) on page 136, that in the picture they're painted on the side of the fuselage, and they are described as "aiming lines for the observer" and not the pilot. However, the purpose similar enough that I imagine the name was probably applied to both uses.
Image
(Source: German War Machine)

Interestingly, given the colors noted in the P-47 blueprint above, the lines are also noted as being "coloured".

Finally, I came across a discussion and a few more pictures on the subject in a Britmodeller.com forum thread.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:29 pm 
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bdk wrote:
waroff wrote:
"no step" on trailing edge and "no push" on trim tab are only on warbird, not on WW2 airplane
I have a T-6 aileron tab that is stenciled with the Spanish equivalent of "No Push." While it may not have come from the North American Aviation (NAA) factory that way, it was clearly applied for military service. Or, it could have been stenciled in Spanish by NAA under a spare parts order.



BDK,

T-6 and some of their NAA predecessors, saw military and civilian service in most -if not, all- of Latin America, including Cuba, the Republica Dominicana, and Haiti and Brazil.

They also served in large numbers and were extensively used in combat in Norrh Africa, by the Spanish AF (Ejército del Aire)

This would help explain the Spanish lettering you mentioned.


Saludos,


Tulio

EDITED:

Two cropped photos, from my collection, via the Guatemalan Air Force files.

The diagonal markings are seen clearly on the T-6 (no wing guns) and on the P-51D.

The AT-6D suffered damage from the explosion of a bomb released at a low altitude.


Saludos,


Tulio


Attachments:
Angled lines.jpg

F-51D 366 angled lines.jpg


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I am one of them 'futbol' people.

Will the previous owner has pics of this double cabin sample

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.


Sooooo, how am I going to know to press 1 or 2, if I do not speak English????
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:04 pm 
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"NO AGARRARSE"

The handy online translator says something approaching, "Don't cling here"!

Tulio wrote:
BDK,

T-6 and some of their NAA predecessors, saw military and civilian service in most -if not, all- of Latin America, including Cuba, the Republica Dominicana, and Haiti and Brazil.

They also served in large numbers and were extensively used in combat in Norrh Africa, by the Spanish AF (Ejército del Aire)

This would help explain the Spanish lettering you mentioned.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:26 pm 
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I offer the following translations:

NO AGARRARSE

Do not hold.

Do not grab.

Do not handle (less likely)


Saludos! (That is, greetings / cheers)

Tulio (That is, Tulio)

_________________
Why take the best part of life out of your life, when you can have life with the best part of your life in your life?

I am one of them 'futbol' people.

Will the previous owner has pics of this double cabin sample

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.


Sooooo, how am I going to know to press 1 or 2, if I do not speak English????


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:47 pm 
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I'm just going to leave it that way. It is a good conversation starter!

Tulio wrote:
I offer the following translations:

NO AGARRARSE

Do not hold.

Do not grab.

Do not handle (less likely)


Saludos! (That is, greetings / cheers)

Tulio (That is, Tulio)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:12 pm 
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Another example of targeting lines. This one is on a Lazarov Laz-7:
Image
(Source: Imgur via WarThunder)

The text in the captions roughly translate to:
Quote:
Below the canopy is the "Zavod 14" type bomb sight (Archive N. Dichev). The front sight is offset (For information see the diagram)

and, from top to bottom:
Quote:
Illuminated bead

Quote:
Front sight

Quote:
Drawing of a "Zavod 14" bomb sight (Drawn by Ivan Borislavov)


EDIT (22-08-22): Apparently the AD Skyraider featured a similar sight:
Image
Quote:
9-187A. EXTERNAL SIGHT POST.
9-187B. DESCRIPTION. (See figure 9-14.) An external
sight post is installed through a bolt hole in the armor
plate on the left-hand side of the fuselage at approxi-
mately station 99. The sight post is mounted parallel to
the fuselage reference plane and is used in conjunction
with angle dots painted on the interior surface of the
left-hand windshield side panel. The dots are located at
angles of 45, 50 and 55 degress from the sight post at
approximately fuselage station 106 to enable the pilot to
establish a line of sight with a fixed object in juxtaposi-
tion to the selected target.

(Source: Blogspot)

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Last edited by Noha307 on Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:20 pm 
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This thread has made me realize how much visual markings on aircraft were still a critical part of aviation in World War II. Invasion stripes are the most famous examples of course, but there were so many others. G-symbols on Navy aircraft (chart), shape-letter combinations on heavy bombers, and USAAF fighter group nose/tail markings are just a few from the American side. The German Platzschutzstaffel, or airfield protection squadrons, had red and white bands on the underside of the aircraft and before that other fighters had Kullerschnauze spiral patterns on their spinners.[1][2][3] The British painted the leading edges on their aircraft yellow for the same reason.[4][5] The Japanese adopted this as well and also had unit markings, such as chevrons on their Ki-43s...
Image
(Source: Tumblr)

Furthermore, I didn't appreciate how much was done not for recognition or identification, but simply for the benefit of the crew flying or maintaining the aircraft itself. For example, both Japan and Germany painted markings on the landing gear of their A6Ms...
Image
(Source: Tumblr)

...and Fw 190s...
Image
(Source: Wikimedia Commons)

...to measure the weight of the aircraft. American multi-engine aircraft featured red lines where propellers intersected the fuselage. The TBF had red flags on the wings that retracted to confirm to the pilot the wings were locked.[6] The British even went as far as using color changing paint to detect poison gas...
Image
(Source: Tumblr)

For all of the advances in technology that were developed during the war – such as radar, IFF – the dominant instrument was still the mk 1 eyeball. There were no annunciator panels to tell you when some part of your aircraft was not in the right position. Even when there was, it seems some designers could not shake off the "this is the way we've always done it" institutional inertia. So, for example, when it came time to mount the engine instruments on the Hs 129, it was entirely reasonable to place them outside of the cockpit on the inside of the engine nacelles because that was the way it had been done for years before the autosyn was invented in the 1930s. (For example, on the Ford Trimotor.) Or to have yellow landing gear and color coded flap indicator poles on the P-40.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:11 am 
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My P-47 question is why did 47's have stars and bars under both wings?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:29 am 
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mazdaP5 wrote:
My P-47 question is why did 47's have stars and bars under both wings?


For easier identification. It wasn't all P-47's, it was applied locally based on the needs of the combat zone.
One example would be the D-Day time frame when Allied troops were in France and actively shooting at aircraft.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:32 pm 
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mazdaP5 wrote:
My P-47 question is why did 47's have stars and bars under both wings?

Ever notice that of the P-47's that had two underwing insignia they were really, really large? I think the idea was that gunners on the bombers would make the association between that and the markings on their own planes. I've heard many tales that if for whatever reason a P-47 (heck any fighter) pointed its nose in the direction of a bomber it could expect to be shot at. The old "shoot first, ask questions later". Didn't see it so much on P-47's engaged in ground support.


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