Dallas air show crash debrief

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 501

Thought I'd post this separate from the main Dallas thread.
Good analysis IMO, not looking good for airboss as has been speculated since day 1.

He brought up an element which I haven't heard of before, there were ride flights going on before and during the crash, and one was landing when the crash occurred.
They were a factor because airboss cleared him to land just seconds before the crash, thereby taking concentration and radio time from the critical bomber/fighter interaction, and he also said the top CAF safety guy didn't want ride flights going on during the bomber/fighter show but was pressured into it, including from the airboss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFwoExC__MQ

bomberfan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:44 pm

Wow, it just seems more tragic with everything that comes out. His attitude while being questioned is incredibly disappointing. I almost get the feeling he's upset about having to answer for what happened.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:50 pm

There were two people on the stand with the ability to transmit. I think the fact that there were almost half as many planes as were flying in the previous year's show led to some understandable, but incorrect perceptions / presumptions of it being "easy."

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 501

RyanShort1 wrote:

There were two people on the stand with the ability to transmit. I think the fact that there were almost half as many planes as were flying in the previous year's show led to some understandable, but incorrect perceptions / presumptions of it being "easy."

On the same freq, 2 air bosses ?
Have never heard of such an arrangement, am guessing its not unprecedented ,, Is that standard for that show, or for some shows ?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:07 pm

Xray wrote:

RyanShort1 wrote:

There were two people on the stand with the ability to transmit. I think the fact that there were almost half as many planes as were flying in the previous year's show led to some understandable, but incorrect perceptions / presumptions of it being "easy."

On the same freq, 2 air bosses ?
Have never heard of such an arrangement, am guessing its not unprecedented ,, Is that standard for that show, or for some shows ?

No. I'm not saying that.

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 501

RyanShort1 wrote:

Xray wrote:

RyanShort1 wrote:

There were two people on the stand with the ability to transmit. I think the fact that there were almost half as many planes as were flying in the previous year's show led to some understandable, but incorrect perceptions / presumptions of it being "easy."

On the same freq, 2 air bosses ?
Have never heard of such an arrangement, am guessing its not unprecedented ,, Is that standard for that show, or for some shows ?

No. I'm not saying that.

Just trying to clarify, seems like a potentially important factor if more than 1 man made any radio transmissions to the aircraft.
I don't want to press you, and I don't like assuming.

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1657

In general, it's common to have an Airboss and an Assistant Airboss on the platform. It's a good way to handle different frequencies, and spot developing problems.

It also reduces the distractions -- people coming to the platform talk to the Assistant Airboss first.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:14 am

Here's a hint.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/communi ... st-3339510

That may get me in trouble with people I'm not trying to get in trouble with, but in my mind, checks and balances are useless if they don't work.

I tried to make that clear in this post: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/communi ... st-3339484

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 501

Dave Hadfield wrote:

In general, it's common to have an Airboss and an Assistant Airboss on the platform. It's a good way to handle different frequencies, and spot developing problems.

It also reduces the distractions -- people coming to the platform talk to the Assistant Airboss first.

Ok never knew there was an assistant airboss, and it seems to be implied that there is an FAA guy too who monitors and can transmit if necessary [or is that the assistant ?]. I tend to watch shows from off base so I have never seen the setup but I do monitor every word on scanners.
Don't know about "different frequencies", any show I've even attended there has only been 1, and for good reason. Could you elaborate on that ?

Extra set of eyes sounds like a common sense concept, but obviously there cannot be 2 bosses, or 2 guys transmitting to performing aircraft, else a new potential failure point would be introduced, contrary instructions.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:35 pm

Xray wrote:

Dave Hadfield wrote:

In general, it's common to have an Airboss and an Assistant Airboss on the platform. It's a good way to handle different frequencies, and spot developing problems.

It also reduces the distractions -- people coming to the platform talk to the Assistant Airboss first.

Ok never knew there was an assistant airboss, and it seems to be implied that there is an FAA guy too who monitors and can transmit if necessary [or is that the assistant ?]. I tend to watch shows from off base so I have never seen the setup but I do monitor every word on scanners.

I think Dave is talking about other places. If you follow the links I posted, you'll see I wasn't discussing an assistant airboss at all.

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 501

RyanShort1 wrote:

Xray wrote:

Dave Hadfield wrote:

In general, it's common to have an Airboss and an Assistant Airboss on the platform. It's a good way to handle different frequencies, and spot developing problems.

It also reduces the distractions -- people coming to the platform talk to the Assistant Airboss first.

Ok never knew there was an assistant airboss, and it seems to be implied that there is an FAA guy too who monitors and can transmit if necessary [or is that the assistant ?]. I tend to watch shows from off base so I have never seen the setup but I do monitor every word on scanners.

I think Dave is talking about other places. If you follow the links I posted, you'll see I wasn't discussing an assistant airboss at all.

I was replying to Dave, and he said that "it's common to have an Airboss and an Assistant Airboss on the platform" Your links look great, will take a while to digest.

lucky52 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:18 pm

Will there be an airshow at Redbird this year?

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2024 9:12 am

lucky52 wrote:

Will there be an airshow at Redbird this year?

No, just a static display and warbird ride event like last year.

lucky52 · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2024 11:18 am

Thanks.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2024 12:57 pm

lucky52 wrote:

Thanks.

This weekend would be a great time to come - B-29, B-24, B-17, and B-25 in house at CAF HQ plus P-51 Gunfighter and more.

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