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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Hello Everyone,
By way of introduction, I am Norm Meyers, and for 10 years I was the project manager for the Mustang Restoration Project at the Chanute Air Museum in Rantoul Illinois, USA. I've been a WIX member for some time, but had not frequented the site much prior to 2013.
Here at CAM, we recently completed the static restoration of a rare P-51H Mustang. In 10 years and for less than $10,000 USD, we've managed to accomplish a lot of very good work on this truly unique Mustang. There are only 6 full airframes in the world and ours is the only one in a museum where visitors can get a good close look. You can see some of our work at http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/
With the conclusion of the Mustang Project, I've begun the static restoration of the museum's N.A.A. AT-6B Texan trainer. Started June 1, 2013, what follows here is a thread of the work on the restoration.

With the project well under way, I've re-written this first entry as a sort of front page for those finding it for the first time. I have a web site for the project at http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/at6b/index.htm where visitors can follow along.

I have already joined the North American Trainer Association, and welcome comments and suggestions. Like the Mustang, the Texan will be a very low budget, “grass roots” project. For now, it is a one man show. Any assistance is welcome and donations are tax deductible, but technical advice and sources for parts and information will be the most important help I will need.

It’s my goal to make this Texan as historically accurate (from a visual standpoint) as is possible with time and funds available, and in the process, preserve the airframe for another 70+ years.

As much as I can, I want to give a little something back to the forum, and have a RESOURCES page on my site where I will post items for download by anyone interested. At http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/at6b ... ources.htm I have already posted Excel versions of engineering drawing indices for the T-6G, CA-1 Wirraway, and SNJ 3,4,5 & 6. These files are easily searchable and sortable, and handy to have.

I can always be reached at at6b@comcast.net and welcome comments and suggestions.

Thanks to all that have already helped out with parts and advice, and I look forward to "meeting" more of you online.

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. New Member February 2014

Mustang Restoration Project http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/index.htm
Chanute Air Museum http://www.aeromuseum.org

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Norm
aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


Last edited by Mustanger55 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:10 am 
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The AT-6B was a bit of an orphan as I recall.
I'm restoring an SNJ-3 or AT-6A and the parts manual is different than the series of manuals that start with the AT-6C and the SNJ-4.
I got a parts book for the SNJ-3 which is the section for the SNJ-3/AT-6A out of a bigger manual that also includes the AT-6B and IIRC the BC-14.
Be warned, it is a parts listing type of parts manual, there aren't illustrations or drawings or photos.
That manual is in the NASM collection.

There is also a CD/DVD of T-6 series blueprints for $200-$250 that would be a good reference. Sold by a guy in CT IIRC. I've seen it on ebay. The T-6G series of prints is only on microfilm and may not have as much info for the early A/C.

Good Luck!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:45 am 
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Checked the cover page of the manual-
TO 01-60FC-4
Nov 10, 1942 replaces orig from Aug 20, 1940

Covers-
BC1A
AT-6, AT-6A, SNJ-3
AT-6B
Each model is a separate listing, I have the section covering the AT-6, -6A and SNJ-3 and it is about 300 pages without picture or drawings. Pretty dull reading through.

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Remember an Injured Youth
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Also, Banaire is no more....


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Thanks for the info guys. Very disappointed to hear about Banaire. They had some goodies I intended to pick up. Hopefully there will be other sources.
The AN 01-60FE-4 Parts List that I found among the Museum documents is for the AT-6C-5NA, AT-6C-10-NA, and AT-6C-15-NA & SNJ4. (No revision date shown) As I understand it, the B and C models mainly differed in the usage of wood in place of some aluminum components. This parts catalog does list both the aluminum and wood parts however. Hopefully, the items I'll be most interested in (cockpit items) will be the same for the B. I only have Parts 2, 3 & 4, with Part 2 being partially illustrated. I hope someone has Part 1 and it has additional illustrations.
I recall seeing the DVD set of engineering drawings offered on a web page other than ePay. I'll have to investigate further. Hopefully someone here can vouch for the quality of the set. Worst case, I'll order the appropriate microfilm from NASM and digitize them myself as needed.
I don't see needing to do much airframe repair, but a lot of cockpit parts will have to be fabricated if we're unable to source them, and the engineering drawings will be helpful.

I'm as eager to get started on the Texan as I am to wrap up the Mustang.

Thanks guys...

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aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Mustanger55 wrote:
Thanks for the info guys. Very disappointed to hear about Banaire. They had some goodies I intended to pick up. Hopefully there will be other sources.
The AN 01-60FE-4 Parts List that I found among the Museum documents is for the AT-6C-5NA, AT-6C-10-NA, and AT-6C-15-NA & SNJ4. (No revision date shown) As I understand it, the B and C models mainly differed in the usage of wood in place of some aluminum components. This parts catalog does list both the aluminum and wood parts however. Hopefully, the items I'll be most interested in (cockpit items) will be the same for the B. I only have Parts 2, 3 & 4, with Part 2 being partially illustrated. I hope someone has Part 1 and it has additional illustrations.
I recall seeing the DVD set of engineering drawings offered on a web page other than ePay. I'll have to investigate further. Hopefully someone here can vouch for the quality of the set. Worst case, I'll order the appropriate microfilm from NASM and digitize them myself as needed.
I don't see needing to do much airframe repair, but a lot of cockpit parts will have to be fabricated if we're unable to source them, and the engineering drawings will be helpful.

I'm as eager to get started on the Texan as I am to wrap up the Mustang.

Thanks guys...

The early T-6s have alot of differences from the later ones. Much is the same but areas of difference abound in the details.
For instance-
Instrument panels had the same shape but different number and layout of instruments.
Radio parts are different in the early variants. The systems were upgraded so what it was built with was probably different than what it had at the end of the war. The SNJ-3 here had a different radio system installed in 43.
No shutters on the oil cooler but the SNJ-3 was upgraded at the Corpus Christy OH in 44.
I don't know on the -B but the -A/SNJ-3 had a different exhaust with the outlet located higher and a different cowling around that side.
Pretty sure the B's didn't use wood for anything but it would depend on build date. Wood came along later. For example the Horizontals used were primarily of 3 types on the T-6 models. 77-21001, 84-21001 and 88-21001. The higher the prefix the later the design date. The 77 and 84 are metal and the 88 was wood. All are interchangeable and today many have one each of the 77 and 84 types on the same tail.
Suggest the blueprints and correct parts list so you can be sure. The B model had different wings as they incorporated a wing gun in addition to the existing fuselage guns. The B had the design change of the 84 prefix where the -A/SNJ-3 had 77 or 78. When it left the factory it probably didn't have any 88 prefix parts installed but things would have been added during its service due to mods and overhauls that were done.
If you haven't already get the history card on that A/C if you can.

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Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Hi Rich,
The museum should have the data card for the Texan, but I haven't retrieved it yet.
Just researching the radio equipment points out the differences in the early model T-6s. The radio and intercom part/model numbers bring up almost no references online. The target timeframe for the restoration is 42-44, so I can probably get away with a bit newer equipment. As long as the newer equipment was T.O.'d or included in similar vintage Texan's that had been "upgraded", which seems to have occurred often, it could be appropriate.
Another part of the challenge is this T-6 was a civilian bird for a few decades before it was donated to the Chanute AFB for outdoor display. Most of the mountings, shelves, etc. are long gone.
You're absolutely correct. Gotta have the engineering drawings! On the Mustang, we had to fabricate almost the entire cockpit. A lot of work but impossible without the drawings.
Image removed.

As you pointed out, the B should have the wing mounted gun. Ours has a fake barrel in the wing, but lacks the access panels for the gun and ammo tray. Either it was reskinned or wings were replaced at some point.
Ours was a "Dallas" built T-6, but I doubt there were any major differences from the Englewood built units.
A lot to figure out, but can't wait to get started.

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Norm
aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


Last edited by Mustanger55 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Englewood is in Colorado I think, Inglewood in California.

Feel free to beg for parts, but havinga picture of what you need is helpful. I have a lot of Junque, but I have none of it identified by part number. You never know if someone here might have what you need!

Joinng the NATA is a stellar idea. I'm sure they would like an article about the project!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:33 pm 
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:D OOPS!! You'd think after 9+ years of working on a Mustang, I'd remember how to spell Inglewood!

Hopefully, I'll have the web page up in the next couple of months and can post photos of some of the stuff I'll be looking for. Putting together the bare bones of the site right now and waiting for space assignment from the Museum site's web host.
My partner on the Mustang project,Curt (Big Merle), is taking on a B-25J/TB-25N makeover, and I'm building his web page at the moment.
Joining NATA seems like a no brainer. Can't think of a better way to hook up with Harvard/Texan folks short of this forum.
I appreciate the warm welcome guys. Once up to speed, I hope to contribute as much as I take away from this group.

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aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Hi Guys,
As I mentioned earlier, I've been assembling a web site for the AT-6B Project. I haven't a permanent host site as of yet, but have the bare bones put together on a sub-site of the Mustang Restoration Page. As suggested, I've put up my preliminary Wish List, with as many photos as I could pull together quickly. The Wish List is far from complete, but I think it's a decent start.
.
I hope to have the site on a permanent sub-domain of the Chanute Air Museum site before long.
.
The Site address is http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/at6b/index.htm
.
The direct link to the WISH LIST is http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/at6b/wish/AT_6_Wish_List.htm
.
Any help, direction, source information or donations are greatly appreciated. :)
.

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Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Hello All,
Just wanted to post a couple of pics of the AT-6B that I will be doing the static restoration on.

The last change in markings was done by the Air Force before Chanute AFB closed and handed the T-6 over to the Chanute Air Museum. The wings sport the plain rondel and star (crudely brush painted), but the fuselage has oversized vinyl stars and bars with the post 1948 red stripe in the bars. It was given a different serial number and a crude 'buzz number' was applied to the left side of the a/c.
Image

The right side of the fuse doesn't have a buzz number, but shows the worn silver-gray paint that seems to be the standard finish for display aircraft that were originally NMF.
Image

I plan to correct the serial number and return the markings and insignia to what would have been common to Luke AAF in 1942 to 1944. I also hope to replicate the natural metal finish by painting individual panels varying tints of silver. The interior still has most of the mechanical flight controls, but lacks gages, radio and intercom equipment. All of the wiring and tubing are also gone. I hope to repopulate the interior with correct equipment to the extent that I can find the necessary parts within my budget.

Suggestions and Comments appreciated.

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Norm
aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


Last edited by Mustanger55 on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:08 am 
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Here are pictures of the 'front office' of the T-6 at the Chanute Air Museum. Lots of work to do here, but the plane still has most of its mechanical controls. Gages, radios, gun sight and lot's of parts will need to be located to make this plane appear operational.

ImageImageImage

Any help locating components is deeply appreciated. Non-working or partial components are fine for a static restoration.

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Norm
aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


Last edited by Mustanger55 on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:18 pm 
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One of those questions for the experts here.

While taking a few detail pics of the canopy assembly, I noticed this slot in the top of the rear fuselage just forward of the horizontal stab fairings. The opening, and the patch look a bit rough.
Anyone have a clue as to what this opening was for? I do not yet have the engineering drawings, so am unable to research this.
Image

As long as I'm asking about drawings, anyone have a digital copy of NAA Drawing 79-71027 they'd care to share? This drawing is the antenna mast for the AT-6. Being a cheap $%@#, I'm considering taking a shot at making a replica to replace the 'stick' on the plane rather than buying one.

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Norm
aka Mustanger
Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:25 pm 
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One of those questions for the experts here.

While taking a few detail pics of the canopy assembly, I noticed this slot in the top of the rear fuselage just forward of the horizontal stab fairings. The opening, and the patch look a bit rough.
Anyone have a clue as to what this opening was for? I do not yet have the engineering drawings, so am unable to research this.
Image

As long as I'm asking about drawings, anyone have a digital copy of NAA Drawing 79-71027 they'd care to share? This drawing is the antenna mast for the AT-6. Being a cheap $%@#, I'm considering taking a shot at making a replica to replace the 'stick' on the plane rather than buying one.

Another question for the group. While working on the P-51H Mustang, I compiled a cross referenced index of the Mustang Engineering Drawings in Excel format, that was sortable and searchable. Does a similar index for the AT-6 series exist anywhere?

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Chanute Air Museum
WWW.AEROMUSEUM.ORG
To Restore And Preserve Our National Aviation Heritage


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:46 pm 
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Mustanger55 wrote:
One of those questions for the experts here.

While taking a few detail pics of the canopy assembly, I noticed this slot in the top of the rear fuselage just forward of the horizontal stab fairings. The opening, and the patch look a bit rough.
Anyone have a clue as to what this opening was for? I do not yet have the engineering drawings, so am unable to research this.
Image

That 'slot' is the inspection window for the ballast weights that were added to keep the weight & balance in check when flying solo.
They were also used on Harvard Mk II's (but not the Mk 4).
Here's a detail of a NAA photo showing the window and stenciling:
Image

Can't help much with the antenna mast, but it looks similar to the ones fitted to wireless trainer Yales.
Image

:partyman:

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