Warbird Information Exchange

After cases where passengers were held captive on airlines sitting on the ramp or taxiway for hours increased over the last few years; the govt made a ruling that allows large fines for any such stranding more than 3 hours
It took effect April 29 and seems to have worked even better than hoped, even though as for as I know, no fines have been assessed.
There have only been 4 cases of stranding more than 3 hours since then, and all were from one storm in the N Y area in Sept
There airlines, as well as some of their people on Wix. resisted this new rule, but they seem to have changed their attitudes and practices, at least so far, and wonders to behold, the entire western capitalistic system did not come to a halt when passengers started to be treated with some courtesy and decency.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill,

It is not the airlines that wish to strand passengers and aircraft. It is the anitquated ATC system in this country that is behind it. Go gripe to the gubmint. The airlines are trying to make money! Not lose it by pulling a flightcrew and inventory off of the line.

The ATC system in the US is 30+ years old in some areas and is just overwhelmed.

The airlines easy way around this new rule is to just cancel the flights as they approach the time limits, rather than pay the fines.

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S.

330, nothing in the new law makes the airline cancel any flight for any reason or any time limit.
Do you have any factual evidence that there are more cancellations than before this law? I don't think so and as a matter of fact this latest article gave figures on delays which are the same as before the law, within 1 percent

All the law does is prohibit domestic airlines from holding passengers on board against their will for more than 3 hours, as well as set some minimum standards like working toilets at 2 hours.

The law does not force any airline to load or taxi away from the gate if they cannot fly within 3 hours, and the airline is free to delay the flight as the want or need, or even return to the gate and start over after passengers have a chance to unload.

ATC may be antiquated, but they are not the ones holding passengers. If it was ATC, then there would not be the improvement that we see after the law went into effect.

Finally it is not me that has to complain to the govt, it was other passengers that finally got fed up when the airlines ignored passenger complaints and the govt finally acted.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

330, nothing in the new law makes the airline cancel any flight for any reason or any time limit.
Do you have any factual evidence that there are more cancellations than before this law? I don't think so and as a matter of fact this latest article gave figures on delays which are the same as before the law, within 1 percent

All the law does is prohibit domestic airlines from holding passengers on board against their will for more than 3 hours, as well as set some minimum standards like working toilets at 2 hours.

The law does not force any airline to load or taxi away from the gate if they cannot fly within 3 hours, and the airline is free to delay the flight as the want or need, or even return to the gate and start over after passengers have a chance to unload.

ATC may be antiquated, but they are not the ones holding passengers. If it was ATC, then there would not be the improvement that we see after the law went into effect.

Finally it is not me that has to complain to the govt, it was other passengers that finally got fed up when the airlines ignored passenger complaints and the govt finally acted.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Here ya go Bill - From this morning even!

http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/travel ... 17pz8.html

Basically, the number of cancellations has increased by 62% since September of last year and this year hasn't been particularly bad with weather.

Found another one from August, and while it's Kansas City only, being that KCI doesn't see many cancellations anyway, this much of a rise is noteworthy -

http://www.kansas.com/2010/08/12/144334 ... mb-at.html

I travel often and I'll say it again: I would much rather deal with a cancelled flight at the terminal than be stuck for hours in an airline seat. It is also my experience that when getting severe delays there is about a 50% chance that we will have to return to the gate anyway. When that happens you get back to the terminal to find out that all the hotel rooms within a 50 mile radius are booked solid, by people who were getting a room while I had to sit in a very uncomfortable seat on a dead plane out on the taxiway.
It is a good law for those of us that actually have to spend a lot of time travelling vs. those who just like to uphold raw capitalism at any cost. (but rarely actually have to deal with the situation.)

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All I did was press this red button here...

[quote="Bill Greenwood"]330, nothing in the new law makes the airline cancel any flight for any reason or any time limit.
Do you have any factual evidence that there are more cancellations than before this law? I don't think so and as a matter of fact this latest article gave figures on delays which are the same as before the law, within 1 percent

All the law does is prohibit domestic airlines from holding passengers on board against quote]

So, Bill.., i rest my case.

You have any FACTUAL EVIDENCE that the AIRLINES are a giant conspiracy to lose money and hold all their passengers against their will so they will never fly that airline a gain?
A conspiracy to keep their inventory and very expensive crew parked on a ramp somewhere so they can not make additional money with them?

You don't remember the news on a flight that was stranded on a runway because the terminal had sent everyone home and forgot the airliner was sitting out there? They flightcrew had to have a reservation agent contact someone at HOME, who worked at the terminal to drive and open it up.

It is not the airlines, mate! It is the ATC who is at fault because of an outdated and overloaded system. To get around paying $60K per passenger if the airlines are FORCED to hold them over 3 hours.., THEY CANCEL THEIR FLIGHTS.. DUH!!! The passengers don't benefit. The ATC system still blows and the airlines are not punished.., as they should not be!!!!

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S.

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S.

The airlines have been complaining to the gubmint for decades about improving the ATC. NADA!!! As long as the "incidents (g*d forbid) of casualties" do not increase because of the ATC, the GUBMINT is not going to do BOO.
The airlines did not ignore passenger complaints.., the ATC ignores the airlines complaints.

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S.

Sorry.,. Bill.., nothing personal.

I am just tired of people thinking that the airlines WANT to keep people and aircrews on the ground. They have no choice. It is the ATC, mother nature and the airport terminals themselves that force the issue.

Not the airlines!

Sorry if you think this is against YOU. Not AT ALL!

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S.

330 Your own source says events of 3 hours or more are down from 535 last year to only 12 this year, sounds like a major improvement to me.

And I dont' know your source, W A, who owns them or what their bias may be.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

330, your source for Kansas City says delays over 3 hours down to only 4 this June vs 265 last June.

Sounds like a major improvement to me.
And since ATC has not updated, the improvement cant't be due to them, it must be the airlines, and in part the weather or how the airlines handle the weather delays.

As for ATC udates, I don't need all that tecno stuff when I fly as a gen av pilot. The corp jets and airlines are addictied to it so maybe they should pay for it.
Bet the airines have not offerd to pay for it, they want the taxpayers to pay, sort ofl ike a pro football team that wants taxpayers to buid them a fancy dtadium so they can make a big profit there as a orivate bussiness.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

That is precisely the point MATE!
The airlines are cancelling flights if they approach the threshold!!!!!!!

It is a lose/lose for the consumer!

If the gubmint wants to rule and own the skies.., they need to pony up and fix this old ATC system.

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S.

[quote="Bill Greenwood"]As for ATC udates, I don't need all that tecno stuff when I fly as a gen av pilot/quote]


So you want all the benefits of flying without flying into anything.,. and you think the majors should pay for your safety?

It is the FAA! The public does not make the rules.., nor should they pay for it. It is their right as citizens of the US to be able to safely and efficiently travel from Point A to Point B. The ATC system is run and funded by the gubmint.

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S.