Warbird Information Exchange

August,

Eloquently put!

My hat is off to you.

T J

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Make my day, punk!

Thank you for the thoughts, guys. Old Iron, we usually agree, but I think you're off base this time.



That's true of the original WWII Fw 190, but not at all true of the present day Flug Werke owner. Displaying the swastika is very much his choice.



I really don't think so. This does not look to me like a gathering of white supremacists, who really are saying that. The students are just saying, "I want attention, and can get it by offending people."



Funny, I was just going to say that any of these kids would apparently still be welcome on the Supreme Court. Do you live in an alternate reality where a Supreme Court nominee was "destroyed," or even just not confirmed, by evidence coming out that he was a dick in high school? If so, can I come join your reality? 'Cause this one sucks.

August

defend the fatherland? If thats what they wanted to do how did the end up in France, Poland, Russia, etc..........

Also, while many Germans were not members of the Nazi party, most Germans did support Hitler. Its estimated Hitlers approval rating just before the outbreak of war was 80+ percent. Cripes some of the revisionist out there today make it sound like Hitler and maybe 8 of his friends were Nazi's and the rest of the Germans were just along for the ride......... pfffff

August,

I was certainly not suggesting that any pilot of a modern (or WWII) aircraft should be seen as a Nazi for having a swastika on their airplane. Even during WWII most German pilots, and soldiers, were themselves victims of an extreme and malevolent government. Displaying the swastika on period equipment is in my opinion appropriate as this continues the discussion about that malevolent government. Such discussion-reminders are needed.

As to the kids making a Nazi salute. I recognize that many of the kids were caught up in and without reflection did something that seemed funny at the moment. But some of the kids obvious refrained from making the salute (and this was a Nazi salute, a "wave" looks entirely different).

That said, the salute is reprehensible and I hope serious repercussions result to the student or photographer who suggested the act. This is beyond racist: this is an act that, perhaps unconsciously for some, supports an extraordinarily murderous regime. We must now collectively use this event to engage in the discussions-reminders of what WWII is all about.

Our young kids do not necessarily appreciate the causes and events of WWII. I say this as a teacher - I know from personal experience that some college-age kids do not know the major combatants on each side. We must use this salute-event as a teaching experience to inform/remind everyone of why we fought and won a world war, and why we were on the "good" side of that conflict.

Kevin

Kids make mistakes - I know I did at that age. They meant nothing more than to cause offence and get attention. They'll learn in their own way, and years later, some will be proud of what they did while others (hopefully most) will have learnt a great deal about how they got here and have a more rounded view of the world and the importance of things. But it takes time to learn that stuff: you can't teach wisdom; only knowledge.

What we assume from a photo is not always what is the case. From the local news:

The parent who took a photo of a group of Wisconsin high school boys giving what appears to be a Nazi salute on the steps of a local courthouse said Tuesday he was simply asking the teens to wave goodbye to their parents before they headed off to prom and never anticipated the image would draw such widespread condemnation.

https://fox6now.com/2018/11/13/photogra ... offensive/

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Always looking for P-51D parts.

The "Today Show" had a short piece about the photo this morning, but it wasn't as revealing as Mark's link in his first post. There was no mention of the original Twitter heading posted with the photo, "We even got the black kid to throw it up #barabooproud". And no mention of the adult history teacher/photographer instigator's attempt to back-peddle out by saying he, "had the boys pose that way as if they're waving as they head off to prom". The kid who didn't comply at top right in the photo busted him on that tho...Some really bad judgement...with photos!!! Quite different than the historic presentation of an aircraft...

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF

Wow 4RG.I.'S, we posted at the same moment! Looks like Fox could've benefited from a little more research...

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF

It is like saying the pilot in P-47 was very likely not supporting democracy. Carefully selected and top trained exclusive specialist in the nazi army was who? Maybe not an active party member, but certainly not a slave forced into the fighter plane cockpit. I am not saying he was born a nazi, but he did support the system. Very likely, that is.

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I may be wrong, and I'm always happy to accept correction, but I vaguely recall reading that members of the German military were forbidden to be members of The Party, which was done to maintain some kind of "separation" between the government and the military. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH

Crew Chief, NAA F-86F Sabre 52-4689
Vintage Flying Museum
Fort Worth, Republic of Texas

"The thing of it is, it is what it is." - some TV reporter talking about damage from Hurricane Irma

From what I have read about this group of boys, is that they are juniors in high school and not seniors. Although even as high school juniors they should at least be aware of the history, significance and sensitivity of of the Nazi salute. I knew it's history and meaning well into grade school. The photo was a bad move and these boys need to be held accountable. I believe since these kids have another year of high school that as a form of punishment, or better yet, as a much needed education, they each should have to complete a detailed report on the history of the Nazi's before and during WWII. If they are punished in some way there's a possible fear that they actually may be affected opposite of what their superiors may have intended. For the most part they didn't hurt anyone and from what I've been seeing on my office TV, they are all over the news in a bad way. Educate yes, punishment no.

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Events will surely arise that will cause many of us to behave like adults.
In time, many more of us also will honor real human progress rather than ingrained biases and cherished political ideologies.

The obvious question of “how could anyone think this is okay?” is answered correctly with a quote in the story itself; they’re teenage boys. People forget when you’re a boy at that age, there are NO taboos: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ed ... 966d786cce
Yep, exactly.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
1944 Willys MB #366014
REMF

Only if they have parents that don't care to raise them right and teach some discipline earlier... not every teenage boy thinks that kind of stuff is ok. That's setting the bar waaaaay too low for our young peoples.

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I don't think the boys will make that mistake again.

Remember a few years ago Prince Harry went to a costume party wearing a tan uniform with the swastika arm band.
He was old enough to know better, plus you'd think he'd realize with his visibility that he'd know enough not to do it...

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

I wouldn't know. Ain't change a thing here anyway.

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