Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:58 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Click here to goto Amazon.com


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:31 pm 
Offline
Account Suspended

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 349
Ive just brought the amazing Red Eagles - story behind the USAF and USN use of Mig 15-17-21 and 23 models in Nellis complex ranges primarily at Tonopah and ______ (sorry Groom Lake aka Area 51 - it doesnt exist remeber...)

Tonopah - http://maps.google.com.au/maps?sourceid ... 7&t=h&z=14

Groom lake - http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&sour ... 7&t=h&z=16

(So if Groom lake doesnt exisit as US Govt tells us - what is that - note some serious new hanagers have gone up housing some serious black aircraft or ufo etc... for air defence or chase planes maybe... note 2 F-16s on ramp to north side.

Janet 737s are seen at both Tonopah and Groom.. obvious to all in the know.


It seems from mid 70s many Indonesian Mig 21 were acquired via CIA -- the CIA not Classics In Aviation who did acquire Migs at Stead Airport Reno as i recall.

It seems most of these Migs expesically the Mig 23 were disliked. 23 was a pilot killer and some USAF pilot said "i survivied 23 sortiies - 22 more than i ever expected to.....

It seems Groom Lake in late 60s held Mig-15 and Mig-17 and Mig-21 models and by early 70s they needed a new base and chose Tonopah DOE airfield.. and then expanded that into a small operation and then soon after the Have Blue aka F-117 appeared on the scene..

All Migs supposively were withdrawn in 1998 after 20years of operating.. some for just a few years. The Mig were placed "overnight" at museums and owners told not to ask any ANY questions.

The rest were moved to Nellis i understand and others buried at Tonopah.
The US to this day denies any more Migs are used but it seems valid reports of Area 51 supports Su-27 Flankers and Mig-29 and other unknown stuff is now true.

The USAF stopped flying 1-2nd gen Mig and upgraded that is all that happened and now its 4th gen stuff.

The book amazes me as to HOW complex a Mig-15 and 17 and 21 are to fly.
It sure amazes me further how anyone outside air forces would want to fly...since there are so many problems and lack of modern fucntions in the Migs.

Most warbird Migs are Mig-15 17 and some 21 are flying. A 23 is about to fly in US .. wonder how long for tho?


Last edited by flyingheritage on Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:36 pm 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:21 am
Posts: 911
Location: NJ
A Mig-23 has been flying in the U.S. for years (at least 4 that I know of).

I know, I shot it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooKwagF00w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvN8WAbeU0o


Rich

_________________
Rich Kolasa
www.crystalgraphix.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Red Eagles
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:40 pm 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 617
Dailey penned a tremendous book. I througly enjoyed it.
I wish there had more material about the earliest MiG
exploitation programs that lasted only of few months in
the 1960s.

In addition to the info about many MiGs turning up in
museums I urge everyone to look at the MiGs stored
at AMARC. Gotta wonder.............

http://www.amarcexperience.com/AMARCArticleMigs.asp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:53 pm 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 368
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote:
It seems from mid 70s many Indonesian Mig 21 were acquired via CIA -- the CIA not Classics In Aviation who did acquire Migs at Stead Airport Reno as i recall.


Well that would fit with what I was told here in Indonesia.

I have asked some older air force guys where the Indonesian Migs went (Migs 15UTI, 17 , 19 and 21) and they said some were shipped to the USA in the mid 70's or early 80's and the remainder were put on poles, museums or scrapped.

I have never seen anything on ex Indonesian Migs flying or displayed in the US so I assumed they were broken up for spares.

The Indonesian Migs are interesting as they came from a variety of sources , Russia , Poland , Czeckoslovakia, Romania and China. I spoke to a retired Mig pilot and he said he preferred the Chinese version as it was lighter than the others and therefore perfromed better (but probably didn't last as long)

He flew the Mig 15UTi , Mig 17 and Mig 19 and out of the three he preferred the Mig 17 as it was the nicest to fly.

If you wanted a selection of Migs from various manufacturers you couldn't pick a better fleet of Migs and Indonesia in those days was a bit off the radar so you could move them without anyone spotting it.

If I had to guess it would have been 1974 to 1976 as thats when a dozen OV-10 Broncos were delivered so there could have been a trade as part of the deal.

_________________
Aussie expat lost in Indonesia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Red Eagles
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:15 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:44 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Heartland, America
Are you guys talking about the Steve Davies book on the Red Eagles?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:12 am 
Offline
Account Suspended

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 349
Yes that right Indoesnia gained OV-10 in part of the co-operation with CIA in handing over valuable Russian Migs.

The book is fascinating to see how the US plays its "allies"... only 5-10yr ago the Indoesnian govt couldnt get parts for some of their US purchased planes... how times changed...

Maybe Indoesnia might pass onto US soon a Su-33 eh? CIA hello?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:22 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 368
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Well this has answered a question I had as to where the Indonesian Migs ended up as I never read anything about them on the US warbird scene.

I only half believed the rumors that some were sent to the USA along with a LOT of spares including some Migs that had never been assembled.

I thought they may have been purchased by Steve Johnson and the Chino team that ended up with a lot of the Indonesian P-51s and Cavaliers and the ex RAAF CAC Sabres.

_________________
Aussie expat lost in Indonesia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:28 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 368
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote:
In addition to the info about many MiGs turning up in
museums I urge everyone to look at the MiGs stored
at AMARC.


I was at AMARC in mid 2007 and I can't recall seeing any there during the tour , interesting , they must be kept out of sight.

_________________
Aussie expat lost in Indonesia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:33 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:04 am
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus OH
I heard this story from a USAF relative stationed out at Offut about the SAC Museum Mig-21...

One day while she was volunteering at the museum they received a short phone call where the caller stated the museum was getting a new aircraft. It would be outside the gates the next day. Then the caller hung up.

The next day there were 2 large crates outside of the ages. Upon inspection they contained the fuse and the wings of a Mig-21. :shock:

_________________
Rauhbatz
CAF Dixie/Ohio Wing Member
Private Pilot

Favorite quote from Wind, Sand & Stars - A. St. Exupuery "friends are like trees...when they are gone we miss their shade"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:04 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:44 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Heartland, America
Rauhbatz wrote:
I heard this story from a USAF relative stationed out at Offut about the SAC Museum Mig-21...

One day while she was volunteering at the museum they received a short phone call where the caller stated the museum was getting a new aircraft. It would be outside the gates the next day. Then the caller hung up.

The next day there were 2 large crates outside of the ages. Upon inspection they contained the fuse and the wings of a Mig-21. :shock:


True story. Check the post I made in the thread about the Eglin AFB Armaments Museum -- they also were the recipient of a former Red Eagles MiG-21 and had a similar story.

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=28586


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:28 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 368
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Give credit to the intelligence services for keeping this so quiet for 30 years

_________________
Aussie expat lost in Indonesia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:36 am 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 368
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
They probably already have the latest Soviet fighters on those bases now :wink:

_________________
Aussie expat lost in Indonesia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:07 pm 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:04 am
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus OH
A number of year back (early 1990's I think) I did a tour of the NASM Garber facility. In the same hangar where they had the Me-163, He-162 and other rare birds they were just getting down to washing and stripping markings from a jet aircraft just outside the hangar doors.

The area was cordoned off and the guide whisked up by the open door. I managed to take a few pics of a Mig-23 that still had factory markings and an unrecognizable insignia.

The folks washing the plane looked nervous and one of them said "Please keep moving!"...

Seems in line with other comments in this link... :lol:

_________________
Rauhbatz
CAF Dixie/Ohio Wing Member
Private Pilot

Favorite quote from Wind, Sand & Stars - A. St. Exupuery "friends are like trees...when they are gone we miss their shade"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:15 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:44 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Heartland, America
Rauhbatz wrote:
a Mig-23 that still had factory markings and an unrecognizable insignia.


Was it a red pentagon with a stylized wing shape flying through it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Mig -23 Marking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:23 pm 
Offline
Group Captain
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:04 am
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus OH
That's correct...the picture is buried in my files but Im sure I have it some where. It was a red pentagon with several swoopy lines running to the center of the pentagon.

If memory serves me correctly that's the factory emblem of the Mig Design team...they were vigourosly trying to scrape that emblem off during my visit...

_________________
Rauhbatz
CAF Dixie/Ohio Wing Member
Private Pilot

Favorite quote from Wind, Sand & Stars - A. St. Exupuery "friends are like trees...when they are gone we miss their shade"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], L-4Pilot, Yahoo [Bot] and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group