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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Warbird Digest
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Good to hear from you, Mark. That is some serious gear you're using.

August

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:35 pm 
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August, thanks so much for the backstory on your collection and your willingness to share here. Big thanks to Dick Kamm for his obsession and his wife for obviously putting the collection in the right hands!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Mark Allen M wrote:
Nice that most of these are indoors now ...

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Mark, do you mind if I share this pic on the XB-70 Facebook page? (https://www.facebook.com/groups/XB70Valkyrie/)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:18 am 
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Mark Allen M wrote:
Nice that most of these are indoors now ...

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Ok, these 2 great photos have my head scratching as well over the B-36's at the USAF museum. Could theses show the two different B-36's that the museum has had, but parked in the same position?

The original B-36 was the YB, converted to RB 42-13571, which according to wiki was cut up in August 1972. Remains recovered by Walter Soplata.

The second, and current B-36 at the museum is B-36J 52-2220. This was flown to the museum, the last flight ever of any B-36, in April 1959.

I note one aircraft has spraylat on the cockpit. I propose this may be the YB/RB. The other does not have spraylat over the cockpit and appears to have sighting blisters- more common for a version with guns such as the J, but by no means definitive. I want to make out 2220 on the tail of the glass cockpit aircraft, but my eyes are not that good. I also note a stripe on the top of the fin on only one photo. I realize markings can change during display.

But I imagine the photo with the XB-70 (dated June 1970 on the museum site) is later that the photo that shows the XB-52, which was scrapped "in the mid-1960's". Did they swap the two B-36's out? Did spraylat come on later?

So if both were on or near the site in 1959, was one parked on the ramp?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:00 am 
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These are not so good but its all I have…….

May 1970

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:18 pm 
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The R3C, Douglas World Cruiser and Spad XI are all in the NASM collection now, correct?

Did I miss any?

Very nice pics and pretty cool to see how far the NMUSAF has come as a museum. Huge leap from where they were.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:45 pm 
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The Peashooter is now a replica. Hey I love these old USAFM pics.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:27 pm 
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The first F-106 they had has been replaced with one that had an operational history. I wonder if it was scrapped or re-assigned?

I wonder if the Stearman is the same one that is now...or at least the last time I was there... displayed on its nose?

The P-26 is the one now at the NASM? I would suspect so since there are only two....
Where did the Curtiss racer (R3C, IIRC) go?
Is the DWC still there (IIRC, the old museum guide book said it belonged to the LA County museum)?

Finally, does anyone know about the airworthy T-6 they had?
In the 90s they had a flying one for occasional VIP rides.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:35 pm 
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JohnB wrote:
I wonder if the Stearman is the same one that is now...or at least the last time I was there... displayed on its nose?


The plane displayed on it's nose is a North American BT-14..or Yale..or something along those lines. Seems like there's been some argument about it's exact pedigree.

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They had a blue and yellow Stearman hanging from the ceiling for decades. The fabric was falling off, so they recently re-covered it, and finished it in silver as the centerpiece of the new Tuskegee Airmen exhibit.

Here's the Stearman in the restoration shop in 2013, looking rather tired..

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And here it is today..

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JohnB wrote:
Is the DWC still there (IIRC, the old museum guide book said it belonged to the LA County museum)?


From Wikipedia: "Beginning in 1957, the New Orleans was displayed at the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton, Ohio.[23] The aircraft was on loan from the Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History and was returned in 2005. Since February 2012, the New Orleans is to be a part of the exhibits at the Museum of Flying, Santa Monica, California." This is interesting, because I don't recall seeing the DWC at the USAF Museum after my first visits in the late 70s/early 80s. Seems like it was gone by the time I started visiting again around 1990.

When I was a kid, they had the Loening Amphibian on display in the Early Years gallery. It's now at Udvar-Hazy. Same with the P-26. In fact, back in the 90s I was chatting with a docent about the Fw-190D, and why they had never done much restoration work on it. He told me that it's owned by the NASM, and they have a policy not to put their restoration resources into NASM-owned aircraft, since they spent a lot of time, effort and money on the P-26, only to have the NASM repossess it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:15 pm 
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JohnB wrote:
The first F-106 they had has been replaced with one that had an operational history. I wonder if it was scrapped or re-assigned?.....


That first F-106, "6451" serial number 560451, was transferred to Selfridge, MI for display. Interestingly this site links it both technically as a F-102 and the only YF-106. https://www.f-106deltadart.com/db/acft/ ... ditid1=340

Thanks so much for the photos Armyjunk- those are great. As for the B-36 it shows that the earlier YB/RB was there that day- and looking rather ratty! Still curious where the "J" was, or if it ever was on outdoor display?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:43 am 
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Steve Nelson wrote:
JohnB wrote:
I wonder if the Stearman is the same one that is now...or at least the last time I was there... displayed on its nose?

The plane displayed on it's nose is a North American BT-14..or Yale..or something along those lines. Seems like there's been some argument about it's exact pedigree.

Not sure where the argument is, as she's ex-RCAF Yale 3417, purchased from Ernie Simmons in the late 60's before his death (and was not in the famous 1970 auction)
She was initially in Michigan with a couple of different owners as N4737G, and went to Edwin Schnepf/Challenge Publications in 1974 where she was restored as a 'BT-9B' in paint only. Donated to the USAFM circa 1978.
The only thing done to her that I can see is that the characteristic carb air scoop at the top of the cowling has been removed and replaced with an ....empty hole :roll:

I always get a chuckle at the display...an NA-64 painted as a BT-9 but labeled as a BT-14. Sigh...
Unfortunately the NA-64 is essentially a mix of BT-9 and BT-14 components. BT-9 wing and engine with BT-14 fuselage and tail feathers.

Someday I'd like to trade a set of outer wing panels (same basic shape as the Texan/Harvard) and a new-build cowling/FWF assembly with early model R-985 to make a much more convincing BT-14.
A BT-9 conversion would require a tubular fuselage assembly (with fabric covering) and early tail feathers. Perhaps someday.... :roll:

:partyman:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:22 am 
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Boy, did I mess up there...confusing a Steadman with a North American! I went to the museum nearly every weekend for five years....and I can tell a biplane from a monoplane.
Hopefully my friends won't see this.

Thanks for the update on the '106.

If the Stearnan is the last built example (as some sources say...but, IIRC the serial doesn't agree) it was built in the silver finish so I wonder why it ended up blue and yellow for a period?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:19 am 
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Where'd the P-40N go?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Warbird Kid wrote:
Where'd the P-40N go?

Probably TP-40N 44-7084, now N999CD at the Palm Springs Air Museum.
http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Survivors/44-7084.html
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p40regis ... 47084.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Thanks for sharing those armyjunk! I always love seeing photos of the museum in the 70's and 80's. It's amazing how much the place has changed.


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