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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:38 am 
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I have just been pondering this.... how did the P-40's that served here in the Royal New Zealand Air Force got here from Buffalo, New York? I know the last part, they were shipped across the Pacific by military cargo vessels. But how did the aeroplanes get to those ships? What was the process?

I mean Buffalo is on the edge of Lake Erie, very inland and up by Canada. So did they crate them at the factory and put them on a train to the coast (in our case the west coast)?

Or did they fly them to the coast and then disassemble and crate them there. Hmm.

Ships did not go all the way up the canals to Buffalo to pick them up, did they?

Are there any photos of P-40's being shipped/trained to New Zealand?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Not exactly what you were looking for...but here is a photo showing the P-40 assembly line. Certain air frames are clearly marked "Fly" or "Ship" so...guessing they were crated up for field assembly wherever the final destination was...

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery ... lant-1940/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Interesting, thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:48 pm 
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We've seen photos of somewhat disassembled fighters heading to Europe, but to go to the Pacific it would make sense to create them, go by rail to the West Coast and then forward by liberty ship.

The reason for creating was to conserve space in Liberty Ships.
I have mentioned this before, but to my surprise, they even disassembled Dodge trucks for the same reason, despite the extra cost (Dodge had a separate building for the disassembly and crating which took a lot of wood).

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Last edited by JohnB on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:00 am 
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The aircraft were modified with any required modifications before being boxed and Shipped via rail to the POE (for Kiwi aircraft it was very spread out).

Buz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:17 am 
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Thank Bus. Do you happen to have details of which ships left from which ports? I am interested in the batch of P-40N-1's that arrived in Auckland on or around the 27th of July 1943, aboard the "John McKay" according to RNZAF records, but I suspect that may be the Liberty Ship USS John W. Mackay.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:56 am 
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Dave

Funny you should ask about that ship and those aircraft

I have them to San Francisco by rail between the 9th and 11th May 1943. My shipping data states John W MacKay (Aus Records also had the name wrong as they called it John W McKay but was pencil ammended)

Details Liberty EC2 - Painted Grey Funnel, Hull and Superstructure. Owners Grace Line Inc NY (Signal KXSQ). Australian records show her into Melbourne Ex Auckland (depart 29 Jul 1943, arrive 06 Aug 1943).

Buz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:13 am 
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That's bloody brilliant Buz! Thanks so much!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:51 am 
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I think Buz just blew my mind. This is why I love WIX. It was fun watching this thread grow from an interesting question to a thorough answer.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:00 am 
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Absolutely agree. I thought when I posted my initial question last night that I'd probably get nowhere as it was so obscure. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:20 am 
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Here is an interesting story about field assembly of the P-40 crates in Burma.

https://www.warbirdforum.com/glover.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:59 am 
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JohnB wrote:
We've seen photos of somewhat diseased fighters heading to Europe, but to go to the Pacific it would make sense to create them, go by rail to the West Coast and then forward by liberty ship.

The reason for creating was to conserve space in Liberty Ships.
I have mentioned this before, but to my surprise, they even disassembled Dodge trucks for the same reason, despite the extra cost (Dodge had a separate building for the disassembly and crating which took a lot of wood).


An additional reason for crating was that provided a source of building materials and fuel without requiring a separate shipment.
Ford did something similar (and sneaky) by requiring the crates for gearboxes in early cars to be made to an exact specification. - which put them 90% of the way to being floorboards.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:29 am 
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Buz wrote:
Dave

Funny you should ask about that ship and those aircraft

I have them to San Francisco by rail between the 9th and 11th May 1943. My shipping data states John W MacKay (Aus Records also had the name wrong as they called it John W McKay but was pencil ammended)

Details Liberty EC2 - Painted Grey Funnel, Hull and Superstructure. Owners Grace Line Inc NY (Signal KXSQ). Australian records show her into Melbourne Ex Auckland (depart 29 Jul 1943, arrive 06 Aug 1943).

Buz

This is excellent!

Would you happen have similar information on the ship Port Alma?[1][2] It delivered at least 11 P-40Ms to New Zealand on 21 May 1943.

If not, could you explain how you found the information in the above post?


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File comment: From the Royal New Zealand Air Force Aircraft Register, part 1
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:41 am 
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Hi Noah307

All of your aircraft were actually slated to go to Australia, but for some reason were diverted to New Zealand (yet to find out why), two primary source docs confirm that the aircraft were for Australia. All were sent to the United Nations Depot Buffalo between 18th Jan to 21st Jan 1943 before being dispatched by land to their POE - strong possibility they departed New York as I haven't found any further information about being transshipped anywhere else.

I base the thought that it was from New York as Port Alma seems to have gone back to Balboa with what looks like notes going to Glasgow in in Aug 1942 however the card is very difficult to read, and there seems to be no further trace until Nov 1943 in Australian Waters, so there is no positive proof of where she picked these aircraft up from (I haven't looked for the ship log but its not my area of interest).

Buz


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:59 am 
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Fascinating stuff Buz.

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