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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:12 pm 
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maradamx3 wrote:
Smokeboxes and stacks can be retrofitted to all but eliminate cinders. It really comes down to practicality. If you're running around a few hundred feet of track, coal is probably the best for tourism and nostalgia. If you're going cross country like UP does, oil has to be a better logistical choice. Personally, as long as it sounds, looks, and smells like a steam loco, it's all good! Huff & chuff!
If you can totally eliminate cinders from a steam locomotive's exhaust, I've never heard of it, and I have talked with the biggest names in RR preservation. UP had a nightmare each time they took 3985 out on the high iron, starting up wildfires often. That's one of many reasons they converted her to oil (and 4014 has 3985's tender attached to the locomotive right now because they didn't have time to do the conversion to 4014's tender in time to meet the deadline for last week).
As for coal v/s oil, yes, it's clearly easier to load, burn, run and service a locomotive on oil than coal.
But it doesn't smell the same! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Here's an interesting story that was part of Big Boy's visit to Ogden...

https://kslnewsradio.com/1905305/englis ... s-granted/

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:50 am 
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Tom wrote

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Here's an interesting story that was part of Big Boy's visit to Ogden...

https://kslnewsradio.com/1905305/englis ... s-granted/


This is a really interesting idea. I wonder if we could be converted into high-octane for an airshow flyby...

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:39 am 
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maradamx3 wrote:
airnutz wrote:
When this thread came up and I referred back to my photos, I could read the 3985 number to start my research on them. At the time back then I was at a small warning lights only RR crossing in Bracken, Texas within 50 feet of the track. 3985 was making a stream of black smoke as she approached and this made me think it was still coal fired. But due to member Sopwith's question about coal vs oil fired, I pretty much know my answer after further reading which reminded me of the rain of cinders which followed steamers especially under load. I also know now altho coal oil fired they still emit plumes of black smoke for effect for the crowd or when under load when...ahemm...they pour the coals to 'er. Reflecting back, there were no cinders following 3985's passing on people or vehicles awaiting right up to the edge of the track.

When the volunteers decided in 1980 to dust off 3985 and return her to working order she was coal fired and remained that way for almost 10 years till she was modified for fuel oil. Many of her Challenger sisters came equipped oil-fired. The main reason for the conversion being 3985 was starting numerous trackside fires due to coal cinders. They figured a zone of about 50 feet on either side of the track or their most fire prone zone. I dunno what the operating kit was for 3985 back then but it was customary for coal fired steamers to carry an additional water car with fire fighting equipment and personnel. An added benefit or fatality to the coal-fired experience was you no longer would get the rain of cinders...sometimes burning...in your hair and clothes and everything else.

Smokeboxes and stacks can be retrofitted to all but eliminate cinders. It really comes down to practicality. If you're running around a few hundred feet of track, coal is probably the best for tourism and nostalgia. If you're going cross country like UP does, oil has to be a better logistical choice. Personally, as long as it sounds, looks, and smells like a steam loco, it's all good! Huff & chuff!

Thanks Mardamx3, as P51 noted, 3985 had a reputation for blowing cinders setting fires back then and I knew that she had never gotten the conversion you detailed. In my previous post on page 2 I noted I witnessed the 1990 or '91 or '92 visit of 3985. In my post you responded to here I was trying to date my photos with what I could remember of her passing. I knew she had been converted to oil in 1990, but I was trying to figure if I saw her before or after being converted given that I couldn't locate a schedule of 3985's events in those years. With the help of the Texas Transportation Museum in San Antonio I probably witnessed the 1992 visit. The 1990 and 1991 visits to south Texas were in the Houston area as far as I can tell. With Bracken being on the northeast side of San Antonio I reckon '92 is it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:47 pm 
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old iron wrote:
Tom wrote

Quote:
Here's an interesting story that was part of Big Boy's visit to Ogden...

https://kslnewsradio.com/1905305/englis ... s-granted/


This is a really interesting idea. I wonder if we could be converted into high-octane for an airshow flyby...

Maybe we could be run through a smoke generator during a dogfight sequence? :rolleyes:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:33 pm 
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warbirdfinder wrote:
Is there a schedule posted as to he route and dates for the 4014?

Warbirdfinder, hopefully you didn't miss it when it passed thru Arizona. 4014 Big Boy, is on tour now and will be in Houston 7pm tonite thru 10am Friday morning. Celebrating the 150th anniversary of the completion of The Transcontinental Railroad. Schedule here....
http://www.up.com/heritage/steam/schedule/index.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:44 pm 
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We got to see her blast through Kingsbury today, just absolutely beyond awesome!! :shock:

Pic: Today's view from a 1946 J-3 Cub (not by me - I was on the ground where I could feel, smell, and hear it).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Its the largest of the steam locomotives. I remember some place on the west coast stopping at some kind of rest stop or ? and there was a large steam locomotive, I thought it was a big boy but just don't remember, it was years ago, like 30 or more.
Does anyone know where that would have been? I'm thinking it was Ca but not sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:25 pm 
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p51 wrote:
I've followed this closely every since the first rumors came out that Union Pacific (UP) would extract the 4014 from the Pomona fairgrounds. Few know exactly what it took to get the museum there to hand over the 4014, but they did get a running diesel and a caboose in the deal (beats me why they would want a running diesel as they have almost no track to run it on, and no connection to the rest of the railroad world). I'm sure a lot of coin came with the deal and likely tickets for the members of that group any time 4014 goes anywhere?
Moving 4014 out of the fairgrounds was an epic quest, with panel track across a large parking lot, then to a light rail track and finally to the UP mainline.
Tony C wrote:
Nice and looks a little bit bigger than those we get on this (the right :lol: ) side of the pond!
The Garratt locomotives got pretty big and a few got used in the UK, but yes, nothing the size of a Union Pacific 4000 class...
Matt Gunsch wrote:
70-80 MPH for the Big Boy as it was designed for freight, the 844 was 100MPH
The 4000s were never designed to run at 80 MPH, that was ALCO's ad copy for what theoretically it could do. I think UP only ever needed them to run about 60, max. they had maximum adhesion around 35.
Out of 25 built, 8 still exist. I've seen all of them but the one in Texas.



Where is the one in Texas??


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:07 am 
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Lynn Allen wrote:
p51 wrote:
I've followed this closely every since the first rumors came out that Union Pacific (UP) would extract the 4014 from the Pomona fairgrounds. Few know exactly what it took to get the museum there to hand over the 4014, but they did get a running diesel and a caboose in the deal (beats me why they would want a running diesel as they have almost no track to run it on, and no connection to the rest of the railroad world). I'm sure a lot of coin came with the deal and likely tickets for the members of that group any time 4014 goes anywhere?
Moving 4014 out of the fairgrounds was an epic quest, with panel track across a large parking lot, then to a light rail track and finally to the UP mainline.
Tony C wrote:
Nice and looks a little bit bigger than those we get on this (the right :lol: ) side of the pond!
The Garratt locomotives got pretty big and a few got used in the UK, but yes, nothing the size of a Union Pacific 4000 class...
Matt Gunsch wrote:
70-80 MPH for the Big Boy as it was designed for freight, the 844 was 100MPH
The 4000s were never designed to run at 80 MPH, that was ALCO's ad copy for what theoretically it could do. I think UP only ever needed them to run about 60, max. they had maximum adhesion around 35.
Out of 25 built, 8 still exist. I've seen all of them but the one in Texas.



Where is the one in Texas??

Lynn, the Texas survivor is 4884 at the Museum of the American Railroad at Frisco.

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"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:05 pm 
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airnutz wrote:
Lynn, the Texas survivor is 4884 at the Museum of the American Railroad at Frisco.



4-8-8-4 is the wheel arrangement. The twenty five Big Boys built were numbered 4000-4024. 4018 is the one at Frisco.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:17 pm 
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maxum96 wrote:
airnutz wrote:
Lynn, the Texas survivor is 4884 at the Museum of the American Railroad at Frisco.



4-8-8-4 is the wheel arrangement. The twenty five Big Boys built were numbered 4000-4024. 4018 is the one at Frisco.

Thanks Maxim! Yup, I knew that, I brainfarted the wrong number in my haste.

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"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:06 pm 
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exhaustgases wrote:
Its the largest of the steam locomotives.


Often quoted but I'm not sure it's quite correct; Baldwin made an XA Triplex with a 2-8-8-8-4 wheel arrangement and also the Erie Class P-1 was a 2-8-8-8-2. My late father (a massive UP and Big Boy fan) made a point of stating that others were larger, though maybe not so heavy. Still an awesome piece of kit.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:59 pm 
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quemerford wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:
Its the largest of the steam locomotives.


Often quoted but I'm not sure it's quite correct; Baldwin made an XA Triplex with a 2-8-8-8-4 wheel arrangement and also the Erie Class P-1 was a 2-8-8-8-2. My late father (a massive UP and Big Boy fan) made a point of stating that others were larger, though maybe not so heavy. Still an awesome piece of kit.

Quemerford, are there any P-1's or XA Triplex survivors remaining?

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Grunt on CH-37
DBF


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 pm 
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airnutz wrote:
quemerford wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:
Its the largest of the steam locomotives.


Often quoted but I'm not sure it's quite correct; Baldwin made an XA Triplex with a 2-8-8-8-4 wheel arrangement and also the Erie Class P-1 was a 2-8-8-8-2. My late father (a massive UP and Big Boy fan) made a point of stating that others were larger, though maybe not so heavy. Still an awesome piece of kit.

Quemerford, are there any P-1's or XA Triplex survivors remaining?


Not my area of expertise at all I'm afraid, but I suspect not :(


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