Warbird Information Exchange

I am considering purchasing the remnants of an antique which was wrecked in a fatal accident 10 or so years ago. The person who died in the crash was the owner. Since then, the aircraft was deregistered and the remnants were sold to the individual I'm talking with.

Let's assume I can put together a good paper trail where the deceased's estate and/or insurance company sold the airplane to the individual who now has possession.

Is it possible to re-register the airplane under its original n-number and serial number? What steps are required? I bet someone in this group has experience in this area.

I am aware that I can assemble and register an aircraft from spares as long as a DAR blesses it as conforming to the type certificate, but I'd prefer to keep the original information, as the current owner has the dataplates, logs, etc. in addition to a mashed up airframe.

Go to the FAA homepage, put in the N number and see if it comes up on somebodys CESSNA 182 or whatever, if not you can apply to reserve that N number right there.
Just remember the FAA's motto 'we're not happy unless you aren't'

The Inspector wrote:Go to the FAA homepage, put in the N number and see if it comes up on somebodys CESSNA 182 or whatever, if not you can apply to reserve that N number right there.
Just remember the FAA's motto 'we're not happy unless you aren't'

The n-number is easy to address. The real issue is that as far as the FAA is concerned, the pile of parts is no longer an aircraft, the serial number is defunct, etc. The question is how to go about rectifying that little problem in order to preserve the history of this airframe.

If the aircraft is to be rebuilt to a type certificate, I'd contact the TC holder and ask them what steps they want you to take. They'll probably have some procedure (in writing) on how to do the rebuild to conform with any and all TC holder and FAA requirements. Remember, the TC holder has a lot of say as to whether a "new" aircraft gets airworthiness under their certificates or not. If you follow all their procedures, you'll make it as easy as possible, but it'll probably be a pretty involved process with a lot of documentation required for both the TC holder and any FAA-types that get involved in doing the airworthiness in addition to any DAR. When we brought over the 3 CV-580s, one of the first things we did was contact Kelwona Flightcraft to get their procedures for ensuring FAA compliance so we could get US airworthiness certificates reissued on the airplanes under Part 121 since they'd been out of the country for 20+ years. It saved us a lot of time and hassle because the work cards we received were pretty extensive and much more than the C-Check that we'd initially believed was all that was required.

It can be done. Just make sure you document everything that you do in order to assemble it, take pictures of the whole process. Just remember, when the project is complete, the FAA will not only disect the aircraft to insure it conforms to standards but will also disect you as to the repaired aircraft.

Its not difficult, many older aircraft have lost there airworthiness certificates over the years. You will need to have an IA work with you because he will need to work with a DER to fill our the paper work to have the FAA issue a new airworthiness cert. Depending on what type of airplane you have you may be able to get some leads from a type club, i.e. the American Waco Club, ect. If you have an odd ball plane it may be difficult to find drawings and manuals for the plane and if the type certificate is owned by a individual or company then good luck getting much support from them, for some reason many companies are worried about liability. Good luck and have fun, its all a learning experiance and don't get discouraged.

wacopilot wrote:Its not difficult, many older aircraft have lost there airworthiness certificates over the years. You will need to have an IA work with you because he will need to work with a DER to fill our the paper work to have the FAA issue a new airworthiness cert. Depending on what type of airplane you have you may be able to get some leads from a type club, i.e. the American Waco Club, ect. If you have an odd ball plane it may be difficult to find drawings and manuals for the plane and if the type certificate is owned by a individual or company then good luck getting much support from them, for some reason many companies are worried about liability. Good luck and have fun, its all a learning experiance and don't get discouraged.

Fortunately, most of the drawings are available and there is a second "donor" airframe that goes with the first one. I'll be getting the paperwork for both, but both are deregistered. I do have a friendly DAR and IA who have gone the "assembled from spares" route before, but the key is that I do want to keep (reactivate) one of the orginal N-numbers and serial numbers. I suspect they can help.

If you have data plates for the aircraft then thats a big step. Like the others have posted, do a N-nimber search online ans see if the numbers are avalible, if they are then you can reserve the number for 10 dollars a year. If they are used numbers than you can try wheeling and dealing with the person who has the number.

Registering the aircraft is a bigger issue. The N number part is easy. To in fact show ownership, you will need a bill of sale signed. In this case, it can be signed by the executor of the estate to transfer ownership. There have been many Wacos resurrected from nothing and this is how it is done. In a case where you cannot find the executor, a certified letter to the last owner with a return can work. In your case, where you know the owner is deceased, someone in the family or the executor will have to sign.

wacoykc wrote:Registering the aircraft is a bigger issue. The N number part is easy. To in fact show ownership, you will need a bill of sale signed. In this case, it can be signed by the executor of the estate to transfer ownership. There have been many Wacos resurrected from nothing and this is how it is done. In a case where you cannot find the executor, a certified letter to the last owner with a return can work. In your case, where you know the owner is deceased, someone in the family or the executor will have to sign.

One of the airframes I'm looking at appears to have a good bill of sale and a good paperwork trail. It has never been deregistered. The other one was deregistered and sold as scrap. The widow provided a bill of sale.

So, with this information in hand, I called the FAA's registration office today to ask for the process or checklist to re-register the second aircraft.

The FAA Rep's answer was: "I don't know.".

My response was: "OK, can you refer me to someone who can explain the process?"

FAA Rep: "Um, I don't think anyone here knows. We contact someone outside the office and they handle it."

Me: "OK, who do you contact, and how do I get in touch with them so they can explain the next steps in the process?"

FAA Rep: "I don't think those people like to be contacted. Just send us whatever information you have and we can forward it to them and get their decision."

Me: "What I really want to know is what information they need to arrive at a positive decision. I'd like to do whatver homework is necessary before submitting the info. It is probably easier to get an airplane re-registered if you send in everything they want the first time."

FAA Rep: "Just send in whatever you have..."

Me: "OK, thanks, I'll just talk with the DAR I know and see what information he can provide. Thanks again."

The entire conversation was very friendly, but it was amazing that the FAA rep couldn't at least point me to some sort of resource to assist in the process. I'm an engineer by trade. I like straightforward, step-by-step processes. I'm good at playing that game. I can win at that game. But a game where they can't tell me the rules? Really?

I may call again tomorrow and see if I can speak with a rep who can offer more assistance.

Kyleb wrote:

wacoykc wrote:Registering the aircraft is a bigger issue. The N number part is easy. To in fact show ownership, you will need a bill of sale signed. In this case, it can be signed by the executor of the estate to transfer ownership. There have been many Wacos resurrected from nothing and this is how it is done. In a case where you cannot find the executor, a certified letter to the last owner with a return can work. In your case, where you know the owner is deceased, someone in the family or the executor will have to sign.

One of the airframes I'm looking at appears to have a good bill of sale and a good paperwork trail. It has never been deregistered. The other one was deregistered and sold as scrap. The widow provided a bill of sale.

So, with this information in hand, I called the FAA's registration office today to ask for the process or checklist to re-register the second aircraft.

The FAA Rep's answer was: "I don't know.".

My response was: "OK, can you refer me to someone who can explain the process?"

FAA Rep: "Um, I don't think anyone here knows. We contact someone outside the office and they handle it."

Me: "OK, who do you contact, and how do I get in touch with them so they can explain the next steps in the process?"

FAA Rep: "I don't think those people like to be contacted. Just send us whatever information you have and we can forward it to them and get their decision."

Me: "What I really want to know is what information they need to arrive at a positive decision. I'd like to do whatver homework is necessary before submitting the info. It is probably easier to get an airplane re-registered if you send in everything they want the first time."

FAA Rep: "Just send in whatever you have..."

Me: "OK, thanks, I'll just talk with the DAR I know and see what information he can provide. Thanks again."

The entire conversation was very friendly, but it was amazing that the FAA rep couldn't at least point me to some sort of resource to assist in the process. I'm an engineer by trade. I like straightforward, step-by-step processes. I'm good at playing that game. I can win at that game. But a game where they can't tell me the rules? Really?

I may call again tomorrow and see if I can speak with a rep who can offer more assistance.

Try calling the local FSDO in your area. I've found that people at the FSDO's are generally more helpful.

Kyleb wrote:
I do have a friendly DAR and IA who have gone the "assembled from spares" route before,

I wonder if your DAR has done this in the last few years. Thanks to Cubcrafters, the regs were changes to no longer allow this without the blessing of the TC holder.