Enterprise to NYC???

[Pat Carry]

Can someone expound on just which museum in LA is getting the shuttle. LA Science, is that the name of the museum?

[Garth]

NMUSAF and it's supporters can console themselves in the knowledge that they have two, yes TWO, F-82 Twin Mustangs on display. AND have clear ownership and custodianship of a B-17 trifecta (D, F and G).

My guess is that there are CAF members and supporters, and NASM staff/supporters (who were under the impression that they were getting Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby in exchange for Swoose) who are laughing their a**es off today.

(no matter that as the high-military/NRO mission shuttle Atlantis should have gone to Dayton, which would have had the added benefit of putting a shuttle close to the center of the country).

Here's what it really boils down to folks. NASA swims in the political shipping lanes. Everything anyone needed to know about how the selection process went down comes by the fact that Senator Schumer (D, NY) issued a press release about Enterprise going to Intrepid nearly an hour BEFORE the official announcement was made.

The placement of Enterprise and Endeavour was a combination of political ego-stroking for Senators Schumer, Boxer and Feinstein, and a preemptive strike on Congressional interference in their placement (IOW, if shuttles went elsewhere, there WOULD have been attempts by the Senators above to introduce legislation to overrule NASA. NASA just didn't want the headache). OH/NMUSAF, OR and WA just don't have the kind of political horsepower that NY and CA have.

Now, what WOULD be interesting is if people started dropping in FOIA requests to see any/all NASA documentation (including emails, correspondence with Members of Congress, the Senate and their staffs) relating to the selection process and decision.

[Pat Carry]

NMUSAF and it's supporters can console themselves in the knowledge that they have two, yes TWO, F-82 Twin Mustangs on display. AND have clear ownership and custodianship of a B-17 trifecta (D, F and G).

My guess is that there are CAF members and supporters, and NASM staff/supporters (who were under the impression that they were getting Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby in exchange for Swoose) who are laughing their a**es off today.

(no matter that as the high-military/NRO mission shuttle Atlantis should have gone to Dayton, which would have had the added benefit of putting a shuttle close to the center of the country).

Here's what it really boils down to folks. NASA swims in the political shipping lanes. Everything anyone needed to know about how the selection process went down comes by the fact that Senator Schumer (D, NY) issued a press release about Enterprise going to Intrepid nearly an hour BEFORE the official announcement was made.

The placement of Enterprise and Endeavour was a combination of political ego-stroking for Senators Schumer, Boxer and Feinstein, and a preemptive strike on Congressional interference in their placement (IOW, if shuttles went elsewhere, there WOULD have been attempts by the Senators above to introduce legislation to overrule NASA. NASA just didn't want the headache). OH/NMUSAF, OR and WA just don't have the kind of political horsepower that NY and CA have.

Now, what WOULD be interesting is if people started dropping in FOIA requests to see any/all NASA documentation (including emails, correspondence with Members of Congress, the Senate and their staffs) relating to the selection process and decision.

When was it decided that Shoo Shoo Baby is staying in Dayton?

[Pat Carry]

This decision will defintely have a negative impact on the fundraising for a 4th building at the NMUSAF. Perhaps the museum should ship all their space stuff back to NASA and put the x-planes in the new building instead.

[Garth]

When was it decided that Shoo Shoo Baby is staying in Dayton?

I thought it's been pretty well discussed here, since the Swoose transfer but still a while back, that NMUSAF only committed to providing NASM with one of their B-17s (since they own a number in various places around the country) in return ... not SSSB specifically. Doesn't mean that SSSB won't go, but she wasn't on the table as part of the Swoose deal.

HOWEVER there were a lot of people, including NASM staff, that believed SSSB was part of the deal and that their management fell victim to a bait 'n switch by NMUSAF. Compounding their emotions, at the time, were the rumors that NASM was going to give Flak Bait to NMUSAF as well.

[Pat Carry]

The last I remember is that Shoo Shoo Baby is headed for Virginia at some point in the future.

[APG85]

This decision has me at a loss. Discovery - yes. Atlantis - yes. Enterprise to NYC - I never even considered it. A virtually one of a kind artifact in a highly corrosive environment...idiotic. Endeavour to LA - to a Museum the rest of the country has little knowledge of...why? The MoF must be horrified not to mention Dayton. Highly disappointing all around. The Smithsonian would have done a better job making this decision and that's not saying a lot...

[jtramo]

Intrepid got the dodo bird Shuttle anyhow. Enterprise never left the earth under its own power. NMUSAF prefers flyable aircraft to permanently ground.

[APG85]

Intrepid got the dodo bird Shuttle anyhow. Enterprise never left the earth under its own power. NMUSAF prefers flyable aircraft to permanently ground.

And there's nothing wrong with that...

[JohnB]

Re: Enterprise in a 'highly corrosive' environment.

If it's tough enough to withstand the high temps of re-entry, I'd guess that they're made out of something a bit stronger than our typical aircraft-grade aluminum.

Anyone have details on whether or not they'd be susceptible to a salt environment?

[Garth]

If it's tough enough to withstand the high temps of re-entry, I'd guess that they're made out of something a bit stronger than our typical aircraft-grade aluminum.

Yes, and no. IIRC there was a situation a few years back where one of the orbiters had tile-related issues due to being caught outdoors in a rainstorm following reentry. When the ships are prepped for flight, there's some kind of clear coating applied so they can sit out on the pad at Canaveral rain or shine ... but it ablates off during the flight. Without the coating the tiles apparently absorb and retain moisture and water. They had to put the orbiter into a hangar under heat lamps to get the tiles dried out.

Enterprise is a weird duck when it comes to the shuttles anyways. She never had a TPS installed, from the looks of her she has some kind of compound (stucco-ish) coating over her skin that NASA carved panel lines into in order to make it look like she had tiles when she doesn't. There are also sections of her that have some kind of thick canvas-like blankets (NOT the thermal blankets that Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavour have). Even her OMS pods are fibreglas - they removed them and had to send them out for a comprehensive refurbishment when they put her into the then-new Dulles NASM.

OTOH she does have a space-rated airframe*, landing gear, landing gear doors and payload bay doors. But not a space-rated crew cabin, engine/thruster plumbing, etc. The original plan was to refit her to be the second spaceflight-capable shuttle, but the costs of tearing her down and putting all the rest of the components in was prohibitive** relative to building a new shuttle from an existing static test article (STA-99 which became OV-099 Challenger)

(* and ** assuming one doesn't buy the rumor that Enterprise suffered significant airframe damage when Fred Haise bounced her down the runway at Edwards at the end of ALT-5)

[Jerry O'Neill]

I guess the best thing about Enterprise coming to NYC is that i will make sure I'm available when they fly it up on the 747!
Jerry

[mustangdriver]

Last I heard Shoo SHoo Baby was still going to UH once the Belle was complete

Yes they have 2 P-82's on display, and they own them both. Should stallion 51 start giving up their Mustangs because they have more than one?

The one on the Intrepid? Really? They have their hands full with what they already have. And the one in LA is going into a bad part of town. Also I can't wait to see them get that one into the middle of LA. Remember they can't take it apart.

To not give one to the MOF and to the NMUSAF is just crazy. More people use the john at the NMUSAF than go to that museum in LA.

Good luck to the winners you are going to need it.

[agent86]

There is talk about Shoe Shoe Baby going to the NASM well here is a little item that the fine folks at the USAFM seem to have forgot when the French Government presented it to the people of the United States via The Office of the White House and then President Nixon and Chief of the Air Force Robert Seamans that the aircraft would go on display at the USAFM and no other museum. Hence the reason why it can't move same reaso why the USAFM can't sell the Ju52 that the Spanish Government present to the Office of the White house.

[airnutz]

Meesa tinksa Houston getza scwooood! How wooood!!!

Getting one of the shuttles was a crap shoot, but Johnson Space Center will loose our shuttle hardware to others. The flight simulators will go to Adler Planetarium in Chicago, the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum in McMinnville, Ore. and Texas A&M Aerospace Engineering Dept. in College Station, Texas.

The fuselage trainer will go to Museum of Flight in Seattle, and the cockpit trainer will go to NMUSAF at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio.

JSC gets to keep the fight deck pilot and commanders seat and an empty building the hardware was housed in.....and we still have a big swimmin' pool.

Lifted from KHOU.com