Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

[Second Air Force]

Django did a great job with the noseart, and both he and Gary make a good point about the design and application of it. The first day I met Gary I expressed my opinion about the paint scheme and he explained the method used to select what is on the airplane today. (I had preferred the Neutrality scheme and posted my opinion here several times.) When he explained the selection process it made sense to me and I was fine with it. Later on he showed me the artwork and we were there when the guys applied it to the airplane. So--enjoy the unveiling and remember the spirit that went into the whole project.

Scott

[gemmer]

There's probably a thread on this already, but I'm curious about the location and caliber of the nose gun. The only picture I've seen of an A model with the nose gun installed appeared to have it mounted in the "point" of the nose and looked like a .30 cal.

[retroaviation]

There's probably a thread on this already, but I'm curious about the location and caliber of the nose gun. The only picture I've seen of an A model with the nose gun installed appeared to have it mounted in the "point" of the nose and looked like a .30 cal.

You're right about the location and size of some of those "A" model guns. These early models had various armament packages that often times make it appear that no two were alike, when looking at pictures and factory drawings of them. Ours, however, has a single .50, in a ball mount, in the nose, just below that location where some of the .30's were mounted.

Gary

[Oscar Duck]

Now lets see Gary using my lawyers rate of $415 per hour for 2900+ hours......mmmm, you're rich. haha I forgot we're in aviation...

Go for it pal.....

[mustangdriver]

First another tip of the hat to Gary & his helpers. It's not Gary alone, as he's the first to say, but he's sure the guy in the middle!

Secondly, just a point on the nose art and the plaques on the guns. Some of us get uncomfortable when we realise we aren't 'outside' history, but are part of it. Old 927 (The Glal formerly known as Lil ) has a history that encompasses the days of being an exec aircraft, a meat hauler and one of the Confederate Air Force's earliest 'heavies'.

As Gary's pointed out, her original 'armed' period was brief and not front line - no less real for all that, but no-one's pretending she's being returned to an original configuration and scheme that's exact for that aircraft - type yes, aircraft no.

Old 927's history is unfolding another chapter*, and some of that chapter's history is being written here, in this thread. We all hope the aircraft continues to fly for many more years and there will be a period when people look back on 'the good old days' of 2006 and 7 and when that favourite old nose-art was first revealed. (And back when Gary managed to keep his temper despite all the trials and was shortly-after bought an island by an appreciative CAF Gen Staff... ) Those plaques and that nose art are another important facet of Old 927's history, for now and the future.

Secondly, it's a fact that however much you tell people, it's only when some folks see names inscribed they realise that that aircraft is flying because of donations and volunteer labo(u)r - not because some rich guy makes it so. And then they might just join up.

Thirdly, it's not pretending to be a 1941 US bomber, it's a 2007 flying remembrance. That remembrance should extend to those who gave to help the restoration.

Regards,

*Ghastly cliché on hire.

I agree. I live in Pittsburgh, and can not get down there to help Gary. So this was a way to help with the guns. Now I did not expect my name to go on a plaque in the plane, but you can bet your a## that I think it is cool. It is much better than having a flying billboard.

[sabredriver]

phil65 is a bloody whinger, the CAF is there to preserve heritage not to adhere to whims of dopes!!!!


i think small plaque NOT on the plane is fine,but a plaque at least helps.... preserve modern days thoughts as it is a LARGE scale project and nowday globally funded in some cases.

the BOMBER is representing the veterans

THE plaque represents the modern days saviours

if your so angry i suggest you get down there and help more

[rwdfresno]

In some ways the plaque is a reminder to Joe Public that it takes donors and lots of money to keep these beasts in the air.

Ryan

[phil65]

Gary,
During WWII it was very common for churches and schools to have small bond drives to raise money for the War effort. At the end of the bond drive there would usually be a ceremony where a Jeep, Tank, Aircraft or Ship would be affixed with a small plate stating for example: "This Aircraft was purchased with War Bonds raised by the Midland Texas Elementary School" - and that aircraft went off to war. The B-24 "V-Grand" was signed by all of the factory workers, but not all of them put the aircraft together nor flew her in combat. I think the brass plates you added are a very subtle touch that will show the public that this was/is an all hands restoration. I believe that you are not only restoring an aircraft but also showing the way funds were raised then (and now) to get the aircraft in the air! I think you’ve held one hellova War Bond Drive!

Thats a very good point.

[phil65]

phil65 is a bloody whinger, the CAF is there to preserve heritage not to adhere to whims of dopes!!!!


i think small plaque NOT on the plane is fine,but a plaque at least helps.... preserve modern days thoughts as it is a LARGE scale project and nowday globally funded in some cases.

the BOMBER is representing the veterans

THE plaque represents the modern days saviours

if your so angry i suggest you get down there and help more

preserve heritage not to adhere to whims of dopes!!!! Exactly

I'm not angry more worried. Gary if you want I well end this now or take it to the off-topic area.
One of the things I'm worried about is the doors that we opened could have a ripped effect on the CAF (Which I'm a member of) and even the WIX to some point. (Your not a true WIXer if you haven't given to OL' 927,Crap like that )
I've been in other Warbird groups where small stuff like this starts to break up the club. People start to ask why there name isn't on her somewhere or that they have to do to get thier name on her?
If your an A&P and work for free do you get your name on her?
How about the kid who is all thumbs but is always there to sweep the floor and empty the trash.
If I give 10,0000 can my mom be the nose art?
I love warbirds too much and would hate to have one defaced (for lack for a better word) for my honor even if it is done classy and for a good cause.
But I guess I don't have to worry about that!

P.S. I would love to go to TX and give Gary a hand but I couldn't keep-up with him and I don't think he could match Pratt & Whitneys pay or benifits so I will stick to just sending money.

Last edited by phil65 on Tue May 01, 2007 7:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[mustangdriver]

I too am a CAF member, but remember that the kid that is all thumbs, gets to fly in the thing if he is a CAF member. Something that we really don't get much of a chance to do here in Pittsburgh. I do see your point, but I think this was a very class act.

[peter]

I think the placques are a great idea and may invite more donations to the tune of hey if these guys donated to getting her guns wonder if we donate will she get bombdoors!

[CAPFlyer]

We have plaques all over the CAF D/FW hangar from people who donated. Some have been there for years. I haven't seen any "we donated and you didn't" club started. If you're willing to help and you're willing to listen to the way the guys who have been selected to care for the aircraft want it done and do it that way, there's no problems for anyone to be part.

We must show our thanks for those who gave out of their own pockets to do something specific on the aircraft (in the case of the WIX'ers, buy the guns) or for a CAF unit (like put in a chair lift at the D/FW wing hangar) by putting up a plaque and telling everyone that visits and sees the item in question that there were people who cared enough to give something and that might inspire them to give something as well.

Phil, travel to some of the major museums and take a second or third look at their facilities, not just their exhibits, their facility itself. You'll find plaques thanking people who gave them funds or items for the museum like display cases, display stands, and the items themselves. This is the only way we (as museum volunteers and staff) to show thanks for those non-members (and even members) who give a little extra to the museum. By doing so, we get some people to give who might not have before and we make those who did give feel appreciated.

[Former Member]

Gary,

I know you've been in contact with the San Diego Air Museum regarding parts and the seat they loaned you, but figured I'd pass along this link from barnstormers. It appears they are selling B-24 & PB4Y parts which I assume came from the infamous Ed Kaleta.

John

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mod ... 34bfe31f1a

[mustangdriver]

I have heard tha name mentioned a few times now. What was the deal with that?

[Former Member]

I have heard tha name mentioned a few times now. What was the deal with that?

Ed supposedly had those rare waist doors that Gary wanted for the B-24. Basically he jerked Gary around for quite awhile only to find out that Ed eventually sold them to the San Diego Air Museum. I'm sure the museum dangled a bigger carrot in front of Ed's nose so naturally he went where the $$$ was and kicked Gary in the balls as a thank you.

Most on here are also aware of my nightmare dealings with this guy when I purchased those ball turret parts. I paid over $35.00 to overnight my check for the parts and it took over 2 1/2 months to finally receive everything.

John