B-17G "Chuckie" Update

[Second Air Force]

A quick pre-Thanksgiving update:
We have people on three continents looking for the correct H2X radome that I can use as a pattern to build one for Chuckie. My thanks to them for helping! In lieu of having the actual dimensions at hand, I remembered that the Academy/Minicraft PB4Y-1 kit has an APS-15 in it. I dug out one of the kits and looky here:


I know it isn't totally 100% accurate, but I measured the radome, did the 1/72nd scale multiplication factor, and came up with an outside diameter of approximately 36 inches.


That measurement corresponds nicely with the 37 inch opening in the 1/1 scale airplane:

There is a seal that fastens onto the fuselage plug and lays up against the radome that makes up the difference.

Once I get some accurate dimensions of diameter and height, I'll start doing a "how-to" on working with fiberglass/composites (compost, as Gary would say ) while I build the replica dome.

Happy Thanksgiving to the other Colonials,
Scott

[cozmo]

Good luck with that and with the "How to" as well. I will look forward to it.

There is a little program I use a lot when using scale models to get full size dimensions, or vice-versa, called "Scale-Calc". I looked it up for a download and see that it has been updated. Its easy, its free, cuts down on the head scratching and being able to convert metric to imperial it has been more accurate than calipers and calculator.

It is a sanity saver when you have the plans and a kit, but are scratchbuilding in another scale.

Are you going to use a male plug, or female mold for the radome?

[Fortress Fan]

Once I get some accurate dimensions of diameter and height, I'll start doing a "how-to" on working with fiberglass/composites (compost, as Gary would say ) while I build the replica dome.

Like these?

[Second Air Force]

Like these?

Yep, exactly like those. Are those the radomes in the Suffolk Museum collection? I'd seen a photo of them a long time ago but could never find it back. Thank you for posting that picture--it even shows how the material was laid during the construction process. Now all I need is the diameter and height and I'll be set.

THANK YOU!
Scott

[Second Air Force]

Good luck with that and with the "How to" as well. I will look forward to it.

There is a little program I use a lot when using scale models to get full size dimensions, or vice-versa, called "Scale-Calc". I looked it up for a download and see that it has been updated. Its easy, its free, cuts down on the head scratching and being able to convert metric to imperial it has been more accurate than calipers and calculator.

It is a sanity saver when you have the plans and a kit, but are scratchbuilding in another scale.

Are you going to use a male plug, or female mold for the radome?

I'm planning on a male plug right now, Cozmo. It will be somewhat easier to lay the entire dome up that way and should be less messy. It appears that the originals were constructed on male mandrels so mine ought to turn out like the wartime version. I'm going to try the "Scale Calc" program--it sounds like a time saver for sure!

Scott

[cozmo]

Were those radomes the wrong kind, or don't they want to part with them?

I will agree with you on the easy part, but not the less mess...unless I did it wrong and I don't dismiss that possibility.

You can incorporate lots of attachment points and framework into a plug, more than I realized at the time. There is a solid aluminum bow and stern plate inside that plug along with motor and deck mounts.

[RAMC181]

Hi Scott, Bill and the rest of the gang....

I've not had a chance to head out to Suffolk to measure up the radomes as yet, but I have been busy beavering away at the paperwork.

I currently have over 100 8AF and 15AF PFF B-17s logged into the database, many more still to come.
I haven't found the ones directly alongside Chuckie, i.e. 44-8542 and 44-8544, but I have found the next two:

B-17G-70-VE 44-8541 (PFF & GEE-H) 8AF, 384BG, 546BS, BK-Y. Grafton Underwood AAF Stn.106, "Buckeye Belle", To 305BG (Proj. Casey Jones)
B-17G-70-VE 44-8545 (PFF) 8AF, 303BG, 427BS, GN-X. Molesworth AAF Stn.107, Returned to USA.

No photo of 44-8545 so far, but here's Chuckie's closest sister, 44-8541, at Grafton during the winter of 44-45.
This photo was taken less than 2 miles from where I sit typing this. :



I'll e-mail the list after the weekend, I'll have a few more on the register by then.
My boss is heading out to Dallas in the next week or so (lucky git), I'll get him to drop in whatever bumf I have in hard copy when he's passing.

TTFN,
PB

[Second Air Force]

Excellent, Paul, and thank you for doing all the research on the Mickey ships. It gives me a warm feeling looking at that photo of '541 knowing that she was moving down the assembly line at the exact same time as Chuckie, with the same people assembling them both.

PM sent,
Scott

[Fortress Fan]

Were those radomes the wrong kind, or don't they want to part with them?

I will agree with you on the easy part, but not the less mess...unless I did it wrong and I don't dismiss that possibility.

You can incorporate lots of attachment points and framework into a plug, more than I realized at the time. There is a solid aluminum bow and stern plate inside that plug along with motor and deck mounts.

I am in discussion with them

[Second Air Force]

You can incorporate lots of attachment points and framework into a plug, more than I realized at the time. There is a solid aluminum bow and stern plate inside that plug along with motor and deck mounts.

Cozmo,

I was studying your QE-2 hull again and my radome will be child's play to construct by comparison. I will be incorporating some small attaching reinforcements at the top rim of the dome to keep things tied together. Thanks for that tip.

I am finding that 1/1 scale modeling supplies are more expensive than making 1/48th resin parts! My plan is to use styrofoam as the mold base material, but when I found a 36" styrofoam ball I choked on my coffee--that stuff is expensive!!!! I'm going to try to find a 4x4x8 foot block of construction styrofoam and whittle the master out of that in one piece. More later....

Scott

[lestweforget]

I have been following this closely. Would just like to congratuate all involved. I think it would be incredible if you could secure one of those original radomes. You are a very busy man it seems Scott. Is the bomb trailer due for an airing soon too!!!

[cozmo]

I am finding that 1/1 scale modeling supplies are more expensive than making 1/48th resin parts! My plan is to use styrofoam as the mold base material, but when I found a 36" styrofoam ball I choked on my coffee--that stuff is expensive!!!! I'm going to try to find a 4x4x8 foot block of construction styrofoam and whittle the master out of that in one piece. More later....

Scott

Heh, I have choked so many times when I hear the price of some innocuous item I want to buy to use for some project that I am used to it. Always keep your eye open for everyday things that will work.

The more forethought and planning you put in in the beginning, the less time you will spend kicking yourself later...been there, done that.

When shaping the styrofoam, have some wood, or gatorboard, contour guides. And you don't have to start with a big block of the stuff. You can buy sheets of the stuff at home improvement stores and layer it (there is a garage door insulating kit that has easy to work with chunks of it). Cover the styrofoam with latex or paper mache', some resins will eat the foam faster than it will set up. A little acetone will dissolve the foam when the radome is done.

A concrete form tube may be what you need for your radome body plug. If it is not the exact diameter, a shim can be added, or cut away as needed. I have used them with good results.

I would suggest mounting this for the radome, but I didn't consider high speed when I built it.

[Second Air Force]

I have been following this closely. Would just like to congratuate all involved. I think it would be incredible if you could secure one of those original radomes. You are a very busy man it seems Scott. Is the bomb trailer due for an airing soon too!!!

I initially thought it would be nice to use an original radome on this project. Since they seem to be extremely scarce I'll be satisfied with an accurate replica. All of the trapeze and inner workings will have to be scratchbuilt unless we have an extreme bit of luck, so the entire installation will be new-built. I'd be less than impressed if we took a bird strike and shattered an artifact in flight. I would definitely like to have an original to display at the VFM hangar!

Oh, the other project has found its way into my garage:

I have to get the fuse storage box built so I can send everything out for media blasting.

Scott

[RAMC181]

Further to my finding this photo showing a PFF B-17G with twin antenna masts on the fin:



I've found two more examples, albeit on "Casey Jones" aircraft in the 45-46 period.
In both cases the additional mast is the aft of the two.

B-17G-80-VE 44-8785, originally "Crack Up" of the 457th Bomb Group at Glatton before being transferred to the 305BG on May 23rd, 1945.
Wartime photos of this aircraft show no additional mast installed.



B-17G-80-VE 44-8796 KY-F "Laura" of the 305th Bomb Group.



Both images are from Robert Hutson's collection of photo's belonging to his late Grandfather Norman LeRoy Hutson Sr., who was with the 305BG during Project Casey Jones.

All the best,
PB

[RAMC181]

A couple more scanner/radome reference photos I forgot to post:





They are of a B-24 installation, but the equipment is exactly the same.
I'll get the full-size images e-mailed to Bill and Scott when I get a chance.

TTFN,
PB