Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

[Robbo]

Gary, this is one of the best reads I've had in a long time. Your continued updates are really appreciated.

Rob

[retroaviation]

Gary-
Not to beat a dead horse on the shop rate thing, but 50-55 is pretty standard for a warbird restoration shop. I think most of the rates that you have had quoted that are higher are for GA or Jet maintenance. I have used three different warbird shops in the last year and they all have 50-55 rates.

Thanks Tim. I thought I was on the right track with those rates.

Gary

[Connery]

Gary, this is one of the best reads I've had in a long time. Your continued updates are really appreciated.

Rob

Exactly right!! I bet there's not a single person on WIX that doesn't come in here every day or every couple of days to check out what's new.

If I still lived in Lubbock I'd be volunteering to help out as much as possible, but living in far east texas it's a little difficult to make the 900 mile round trip ride and have any time to actually be productive.

[Randy Haskin]

This thread needs to be a "sticky" -- by far one of the most interesting threads I've seen on WIX.

It would be nice to put all of Gary's posts and photos into their own PDF file or something for download. It is one of the coolest as-it-happens documentations of a restoration that I've ever seen.

[Old Shep]

I wanted to weigh in here in reference to a comment made by Mark V and others, re: the lack of volunteers to join with Gary in working on Diamond Lil. First, like any volunteer organization, only about 10% seem to do any work on any kind of regular basis. Of the 6000 plus CAF members, less than 500 live within 200 miles of Midland and CAF HQ. Of the two local units, the High Sky Wing and the Desert Squadron, membership would total about 170. Those two units operate and maintain two Fairchild PT-19s, a Stearman, a Fairchild F-24/J2K/UC-61, an SNJ, and a Stinson 105. That requires some manpower right there (remember the 10% business...). Plus, the average age of a CAF member is 59...the mind might be willing but the body is weakening!

Reaching out to a younger generation is one of the biggest obstacles the CAF faces...our aging membership is a real concern....anyway, I hope it is now a bit clearer about the volunteer situation facing Gary (and the rest of us) in trying to Keep 'em flying in the CAF. It ain't easy!

Old Shep

[Randy Haskin]

Reaching out to a younger generation is one of the biggest obstacles the CAF faces...our aging membership is a real concern....

This is off topic, but is the CAF doing anything specifically to promote this?

When I was a high schooler up in Washington State, FiFi was undergoing restoration aided by the Boeing folks. My dad was a Boeing engineer (and former B-29 flight engineer), and volunteered. When I tried to offer my assistance (I was a motivated kid with flying and maintaining experience, and a real warbird freak to boot), I was rebuffed by Troy Tigner because I was "too young" and there was some deal with the CAF's insurance or whatever.

This was a total put-off for me for the CAF. Here I was, a youngster with a lot of motivation to help, yet there was no avenue or effort let me participate.

For youth to be interested, things have to be INCLUSIVE.

[retroaviation]

Randy (and everyone else), I can't speak for the entire organization here, as I simply don't know all of the rules. I can say, however, that I will happily accept anyone who is willing to pitch in and help with these airplanes. Sure, from time to time, there may be an issue with someone's age and a particular job, but if that's the case, then I'll just find something safer or easier for them to do. If we get any enthusiastic youngsters here we put 'em to work.

Maybe Old Shep can pitch in and help me with this. But I know what you're talking about Randy. It could be frustrating for a youngster to get into these Warbirds if there wasn't anyone out there willing to let them pitch in. All I can say is that I will give pretty much any volunteer a shot at trying. Sometimes, for one reason or another, things may not work out. But most times, people end up having a good time.

I hope this helps with your question.

Gary

[DB2]

This was a total put-off for me for the CAF. Here I was, a youngster with a lot of motivation to help, yet there was no avenue or effort let me participate.

For youth to be interested, things have to be INCLUSIVE.

Same story here. When I was a college student in the early '90s, I interned several semesters in Houston, and tried to get involved with the CAF (both Gulf Coast and West Houston) and was basically ignored by the people there. It seemed to just be a "club" for middle-aged (and up) guys in grey flight suits. Even at the airshows I always found the CAF people to be a bit stand-offish.

At the time I was willing to do anything to be around warbirds, and also had a good deal of hands-on mechanical and flight experience. One of the attractions for me in Houston had been the opportunity to work on real warbirds every weekend. Yet, I too was rebuffed.

I've really had a dislike for the CAF since, but I have to say Gary's posts are turning me around.

[Alan Brooks]

DB-2... PM on the way... Alan Brooks

[Matt Gunsch]

consider this CAF bashing, but, I was wondering, The B-29 and B-24 used to be assigned to wing or squadron, and they were responciable for the up keep and restoration, operation. The AZ wing does that with the B-17 and B-25. Where are the squadron members ? or do they only show up when it is time to fly ?

I used to be with the Az wing but left due to politics, and I was also one of the young ones around, I started when I was 13, I am 41 now. I left when I could no longer afford the dues, but I was willing to work on the planes, but was told that unless you were a paid member, I could not work on the planes.

If the group the B-29 and B-24 are assigned to can no longer gather the volunteers needed to keep them in flyable shape, maybe it is time for them to be reassigned.

[Ztex]

It could be frustrating for a youngster to get into these Warbirds if there wasn't anyone out there willing to let them pitch in.

I interned several semesters in Houston, and tried to get involved with the CAF ... and was basically ignored by the people there. It seemed to just be a "club" for middle-aged (and up) guys...

This is a big issue with the future of a lot of museums (and other walks of life). People complain about the younger generation not getting involved. There are a lot of young people that could care less about history ... or anything older than they are, and when one youngster comes along that does many times they are turned away by the "good'ole boy" attitude of you too young or you don't know anything or you can't do anything for me... It's a crying shame when that happens.

All I can say is that I will give pretty much any volunteer a shot at trying

Way to go Gary!

When I was about 21, I showed up at the local airport and asked if I could help with the B-17. Doc said "Sure!" he gave me some gasket paper, a utility knife and an old valve cover gasket, and said "let me know if you need help"
I was hooked and stayed around for several years...That's the way you get people involved...don't turn them away.

IMHO.

Zane

[Dennis7423]

[quote=]"Reaching out to a younger generation is one of the biggest obstacles the CAF faces..."[/quote]

For me, being 21 years old and almost 22, it came from my family educating me about warbirds and the past generation. MY Grandfather flew with the 96th BG during WWII, and it was because of his stories that I grew such a passion for warbirds. That is why my twin brother, our friend Matt, myself, and possibly a few others will be making our way down to Midland over our Spring Break (we're all in college) in order to put in a good week's worth of volunteer work on the birds. I know we are only a few, but if it helps at all, there are some young ones out here that sure do care about this old birds

-Dennis S.
Greeley, CO

[oscardeuce]

I know I am one of the youngest faces in the briefing tent at the airshows. I'd like to see more younger guys too.

[Jase]

As far as "skewing younger", I got that covered. I'm 34 now, and have been involved with the CAF for a decade or so.

I cannot speak for what any other Wing or Squadron does, but we at the National Capitol Squadron are firmly in Gary Austin's camp... "If you can fog a mirror, you too can work on warbirds!" Obviously, the worker bees are supervised by A&P's as per FAR's.

We have a pretty decent Cadet program as well, that my two kids are part of.

I admit to a sense of personal rage and disgust at comments like this:
"I interned several semesters in Houston, and tried to get involved with the CAF ... and was basically ignored by the people there. It seemed to just be a "club" for middle-aged (and up) guys.." I will say that I have heard this same refrain more than once about certain units within the CAF. However, I believe that the "good-ole-boy" reputation is slowly but surely changing for the better. There are a heckuva lot of units out there that NEED folks so bad, they cannot afford to even *appear* to be picky. THOSE are the units that will welcome in, and groom the younger crop of warbird nuts.

It would behoove the elderly curmudgeons to remember that time is on the side of the young..........

C'mon out to NCS if anyone is in the DC area. We'll put a wrench or something in your hand and go from there.

Oh, and Gary, Shae and I will be out either the week before or the week following MidWinter Staff and he'p out.

[coldaffyduck]

I will have to agree with Jase on his comments. The first CAF aircraft I flew on was "Lil" when I was 16. Actually, that group was bending over backwards for me, with me being that young and wanting to help out. But there were other groups that didn't want anything to do with me. With our group, Old Dominion Squadron, we have two planes in restoration (C-60 and OY-1) and another (US-2B) that we are starting winter maintenance on but out of 75 members only about 8 of us are out there on a regular basis doing all the work. Even my 6 year old daughter comes out and hands us tools or wipes the planes down. We do have 2 guys in the military that come out and help every so often that are currently not CAF members. Our feelings on that are yes it would be great if you were a member but we need volunteers too bad to turn people away. So, if you are ever in our neck of the woods and want to lend a hand, come on out we have plenty to do no matter what your skill level is.

I will say this though, Gary, you have created a lot of excitment in our group on what you are accomplishing with "Lil" and everybody out here really appreciates the time and effort you are putting into "Lil" and "Fifi". I just wish there was some way to get out there and lend a hand, but with work and our own birds to work on there is just no way to get out there.