Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

[Randy Haskin]

I hope this helps with your question.

Yes, Gary, thank you. You're a class act, and I hope to work with you in the future. Bravo for your outstanding work on FiFi and this current work on Lil!

[retroaviation]

consider this CAF bashing, but, I was wondering, The B-29 and B-24 used to be assigned to wing or squadron, and they were responciable for the up keep and restoration, operation. The AZ wing does that with the B-17 and B-25. Where are the squadron members ? or do they only show up when it is time to fly ?

I used to be with the Az wing but left due to politics, and I was also one of the young ones around, I started when I was 13, I am 41 now. I left when I could no longer afford the dues, but I was willing to work on the planes, but was told that unless you were a paid member, I could not work on the planes.

If the group the B-29 and B-24 are assigned to can no longer gather the volunteers needed to keep them in flyable shape, maybe it is time for them to be reassigned.

Matt, all of what you've said in that post is something that I hear frequently. Although I'm probably not the guy to address your concerns, I'm going to anyway.

The question about, "Where are the Squadron members and do they only show up when it's time to fly?," is a tough one for me to answer "politically." I can tell you that there are occasionally some days, when I might be a tad bit grumpy, and the slightest bit frustrated I'm the only one here doing most of the work, that I might tend to ask that question myself. However, one must remind himself that most of our Squadron members are much like anyone else in the fact that they simply cannot afford to make multiple trips back and forth to pitch in. Furthermore, as much as I hate to say it, it may be more important for most of them to volunteer during the flying part of our operation, rather than the maintenance part of it. Without the volunteers to be there to conduct the aircraft tours, sell stuff at our weekly garage sale (PX), or take care of the general logistics of things, we'd be sunk. Sure, there are a handful of folks that just want to be in the viewfinder of the TV cameras and newspaper photographers upon our arrival somewhere, but the vast majority of folks that do come out to help are hard working people who care about these airplanes. Plus, getting to fly in the planes from stop to stop is also a bonus.

I don't know what is officially required by the AZ Wing or for the CAF as a whole for that matter, regarding whether a person is required to be a member in order to be a volunteer. However, I can tell you that I personally don't care if you're a member or not if you wish to help. Sure, I may ask you to join the CAF and our Squadron. After all, the money from our members is what helps support our organization. But if you're out here helping get things done...well, that's supporting us too.

As far as reassignment of the airplanes go, I've heard it suggested multiple times (maybe even by me on occassion). However, the reality is that the group of people who are in the B-29/B-24 Squadron are the best folks for these airplanes overall. Are we in a major slump right now? You bet we are. Have they been this way before and dug themselves out? You know they have. This is going to be no different. Another fact is that even IF our group decided they'd had enough, who would step up to take their place? I sincerely doubt that there are many individuals out there that would like to inherit the huge amount of debt and operating costs of these airplanes, not to mention what it will take to get them flying again so that they can support themselves. Did you know that it costs us (rough estimate here) approximately $8,500.00 per hour to operate FIFI by the time all of the expenses are calculated in? It's about half of that for the Liberator. So, if reassignment is the answer to our delimmas, then I'd be all for hearing the arguments for it (not that it's my decision). However, I bet it would eventually boil down to keeping the airplanes with the people who have kept them flying for many, many years through thick and thin. The people in the B-29/B-24 Squadron care very much about these airplanes and do wish to what's best for them.........sometimes they just have to be reminded of it, that's all.

These are just my two cents worth. I hope this helps you see another side of the story.

Gary

[Matt Gunsch]

Gary,
My point was this, if the planes are assigned to a squadron, how come they are not doing the maint on the planes, or at least helping ? When I was with the AZ wing, we did everything on the B-17, engine changes, restoration, maint, inspections,even with the wing fitting AD, they did it in Mesa, not at Midland. Everyone hated when the plane had to spend time at HQ. Where is the squadron based that B-29 and B-24 are assigned to ?

I know everyone has a life, but a couple of hr drive is not that much, I rode my bicycle several time out to Falcon Field when I could not get a ride, it was 35 miles each way.
So where are the members of the B-29/B-24 squadron ?

[retroaviation]

Gary,
My point was this, if the planes are assigned to a squadron, how come they are not doing the maint on the planes, or at least helping ? When I was with the AZ wing, we did everything on the B-17, engine changes, restoration, maint, inspections,even with the wing fitting AD, they did it in Mesa, not at Midland. Everyone hated when the plane had to spend time at HQ. Where is the squadron based that B-29 and B-24 are assigned to ?

I know everyone has a life, but a couple of hr drive is not that much, I rode my bicycle several time out to Falcon Field when I could not get a ride, it was 35 miles each way.
So where are the members of the B-29/B-24 squadron ?

The B-29 and B-24 are based in Midland. The B-24 had been in Tulsa for the last five or six years for it's winter maintenance, but is obviously back here now. Why aren't there more Squadron members here to help? I don't know. I've probably run them all off since I don't cotton to doing a lot of things "the way we've always done it." Some people just don't like change. The ones that have given some of my ideas a chance have come to help, the others haven't. So a lot of why there are no Squadron members here is likely my fault.

Trust me, we are very aware that everyone hates to bring "their" airplanes to HQ for their required rotation schedule. In fact, I reckon the majority of airplanes that are supposed to be here amazingly come up with some "maintenance" or other issue to keep them from complying with that rotation. Funny how that never happens come Airsho time. Since I'm often the only person in the hangar, I'm the one that gets to explain to the upset museum guests why there are no airplanes here. That gets a little old. But that is for another discussion another time.

I hear you though, Matt. I asked our Squadron leader just yesterday why it is that I'm able to get volunteers from the High Sky Wing and even offers of help from folks on WIX, while only two people from our Squadron have come out to help. Your point is well taken and maybe some of our folks will read what you've got to say and prove us both wrong.

Thanks for your comments,
Gary

[Shay]

Gary

So after reading what you wrote and talkinga bout those who do not like change. Have you notice any individuals within the CAF experiencing heartburn over "Lil's" metamorpheous?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Jack Cook]

So after reading what you wrote and talkinga bout those who do not like change.

Brings up 2 great sayings.
"Lead, follow or get the h*ll out of the way!"
"If you're not going to be part of the solution then you're part of the problem!"
Either one seems to apply here.
Keep up the great work Gary! I appreciate that you're honest and being upfront of the problems within CAF along with all the good stuff.

Last edited by Jack Cook on Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dan Johnson II]

Agreed with Sasnak. Lets not lets this one disintegrate into a CAF pro or con thread.

Watching the wonderful work being done on Lil is what this one is about. i'd had to lose that.

[retroaviation]

Sorry guys. You're right about this thread being about updates on the B-24A. I'll have a fresh update after I get done working today even though there's really not much to show.

Gary

[Randy Haskin]

Speaking of the good stuff, are there any new updates to the progress of the B-24A? Seems this thread has taken on a different path as of late. All good points, but perhaps we can resume talk on the B-24 and not so much the problems of the CAF.

It's been like two days since the last photo update. Is that really so long ago that it's time to start squawking for a fresh update??

[Jack Cook]

I'll be the desenter here because we really don't need a "what's wrong with the CAF thread".
Gary's explaination of issues within the CAF helps people gain a better understand of the problems he faces in his efforts and why he's mostly working alone. I found it suprising that folks outside the CAF have expressed more interest in helping him that those officially part of the organization.
BTW-Gary update please!!

[retroaviation]

Okay, okay, here's an update. I feel like someone has said, "The beatings will continue until morale improves." You want pictures? Well, here's a whole lot of pictures of nothing. Seriously though, there really isn't much visual progress to show, but y'all will maybe get an idea of the little things that have to be done on a project such as this with the the following...........

On the last episode of "When Gary Goes Crazy," I was working on the permanent "plug" to replace the section of where the old transport door used to be. The next step for me was to build an upper, close-out rib for that section. This, of course, was started by using some trusty ol' posterboard. After getting the shape I needed with the posterboard, I transferred it to the aluminum sheet. This is .050" thick, so there was no way I could duplicate the radius I had in the bends on the posterboard. So, I had to make an allowance for that and dropped my bend lines down 1/4". The blue lines are what was transferred from the posterboard and the red lines are my "actual" bend lines......


The bending work was accomplished on our sheet metal brake....


Here's the close-out rib all bent to shape. I'm not going to install, or even drill it at this point, as I need to work out the rest of the door portion and figure out my final hinge arrangement......


Here's what I would call the center third of the original door. This will be modified to fit into my plans....


First, the skin had to come off....


Then I took the lower close-out rib out of it and shortened the structure about an inch or two (can't remember now )........


I was starting to come across some areas that had me concerned, corrosion-wise, which started to slow the process down a bit. But after a light bead blasting, I was pleasantly surprised to find that nearly all of the corrosion in this structure was superficial and only on the surface. The other areas were easily removed. The remaining structure will receive an acid etch bath, along with alodine to help protect the aluminum, before being primed with an epoxy primer later on.......


It's not just corrosion that I look for when inspecting old airplane pieces like this. It's these crazy little things like rivets bent over like nails that make you say bad words. Going back to fix items like this can be extremely time consuming, and often times make for more work due to the holes being egg shaped. In this case though, I was lucky and was able to increase the size of the hole to the next larger rivet to repair this........


Here's the bottom close-out rib riveted back into place in it's new location. Since these parts were completely bare, I treated them and shot them with primer before I riveted them together. Like I mentioned before, the remaining part of the door will be treated later......


Here is the "new" door hanging by the latches in it's relatively new home. My next step is to refine my door hinge idea and get that installed.......


Hmmmmm, I wonder what Gary is going to do with those A-26 gear door hinges that he found out in the scrap pile? ...........


Well, I hope that give y'all your update "fix" for a little while anyway. I'll try to be more punctual with them in the future.

Gary

[TimAPNY]

Very nice! Thanks for the update

Tim

[bdk]

Maybe someone could put together a build log from this for the CAF to post on it's website? Maybe more "non-WIXer" CAF folks would be encouraged by Gary's work and would consider participating whether by labor or donation. After all, misery certainly loves company!

This certainly ought to be published in the CAF newsletter at a minimum.

[ALAN.L]

Gary ,
Thanks again for taking the time to show us your work and for explaining it so that we can follow your steps.
Apologies if I have misssed it somewhere else ,but if you get chance could you tell me how you acquired all your skills? Did you work for one of the big manufacturers or just started at a small workshop?
It must be difficult sometimes not having somone as a soundboard to bounce your ideas off!
Cheers, Alan.

[Former Member]

Very impressive Gary...I wish I had 1/10th the talent you do.

Keep up the good work and keep sharing your updates.

John